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The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

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Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#261

Post by zanny »

ploxiln wrote: post #195
zanny wrote: post #175

Right here: https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Atheros_AR5B22 This thing works. I just buy them in bulk. I can get one for $13 off ebay. Any device I run Linux on, I replace whatever half size mpcie card it has with one. I don't fuck with the realtek or broadcom chips I get, because ath9k is all-open, no proprietary firmware, works out of the box. Drivers are in any kernel since the 3 series started, the bluetooth is just a g…

Much appreciated tip, thanks. I've known some atheros chips had really good drivers, but this is more specific than my vague impressions. I suppose a major cause of the situation is that hardly anyone buys a laptop with the wifi chip as the first concern. Most laptops for sale don't clearly show the wifi chip, unless you go into the online configurator where you might be able to pay for an upgrade (yes I'm one of the…

It relates back to a real problem in the Linux ecosystem today - the assumption Windows Computer == Linux Computer. A false assumption, especially when you get into the realms of device support for specific motherboard features, wifi cards, expansion cards, etc.

If anything, the real problem is the lack of an easy to reference directory of Linux hardware from the buyers perspective, rather than from the owners perspective. IE, "I want to buy (or ) that supports Linux, all the parts manufacturers provide open drivers or documentation, and all the parts are compatible.

The lack of such a resource probably turns a lot of potential Linux converts off.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#262

Post by zanny »

slacka wrote: post #192
zanny wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those are really under GPL, nothing should stop you from converting them into a kmod using the kernel 802.11 architecture and pushing them upstream. I'd imagine that since it hasn't happened yet there is something else at work impeding it.

They ARE GPLv2. See for yourself. 4.0.2_9000: http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langi... Converting them to the latest kernel driver interface is beyond my skills and pvaret's rtl8192cu-fixes. Pvaret's remarks on github indicate it's a hack to just get them running and someone with Linux networking internals experience is needed to do a proper port. I'd be willing to test and file bug reports. Yo…

But "someone else should fix it" does not help either.

If you do not provide Realtek the financial incentives (ie, not buying their products) for not maintaining proper Linux drivers (in kernel ones are what I would consider proper) then nobody in the world has a financial incentive to make them work for you. If you are buying realtek products, having them not work, and not demanding a refund for the lack of functionality, then nothing changes.

It is disingenuous to blame kernel developers for not fixing a hardware vendors shitty driver when said hardware vendor is not paying them squat.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#263

Post by steanne »

clebio wrote: post #187
Istof wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't feel like doing the research to make sure that your hardware will work correctly under Linux, you can buy a computer with Linux pre-installed.

Which is to say, you know, the one Dell laptop and the System76 behemoths. So, yeah, two options out of ... thousands. And, research or not, _no_ hardware really, fully supports linux (or, vice-versa). Which is sort of the point of this whole thread.

there's a bunch of sources nowadays.

http://linuxpreloaded.com/

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#264

Post by steanne »

keithpeter wrote: post #100
john61 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Linux on ThinkPads since 1999 or so. I can not remember issues I could not solve. Just last week I installed Debian Wheezy on a X61 and everything worked out of the box. Works like a charm. This is a helpful resource: http://www.thinkwiki.org

Yup, Thinkpad X60 with Intel wifi cards seems to work OK provided you add the non-free firmware iwlwifi package. Some of the X61 and X61s series had an Atheros wifi card and would work from a default Debian install. I've also had good luck with a Dell Latitiude E5420 (i5). This and similar models have a Broadcom wifi card which is a known problem so I simply purchased an Atheros half size wifi card and popped it in.…

the free software foundation lists exactly one laptop that gets their 'respects your freedom' cert.

http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-fr...

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#265

Post by slacka »

zanny wrote: post #262
slacka wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ARE GPLv2. See for yourself. 4.0.2_9000: http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langi... Converting them to the latest kernel driver interface is beyond my skills and pvaret's rtl8192cu-fixes. Pvaret's remarks on github indicate it's a hack to just get them running and someone with Linux networking internals experience is needed to do a proper port. I'd be willing to test and file bug reports. Yo…

But "someone else should fix it" does not help either. If you do not provide Realtek the financial incentives (ie, not buying their products) for not maintaining proper Linux drivers (in kernel ones are what I would consider proper) then nobody in the world has a financial incentive to make them work for you. If you are buying realtek products, having them not work, and not demanding a refund for the lack of function…

Realtek provided a rock solid, stable, GPLv2 driver. The "proper" driver is a piece of shit, requiring a reboot after a few minutes of use. They shouldn't have changed the driver interface, leaving people like my parents with broken hardware, if they don’t have the manpower to fix this sort of issue.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#266

Post by antocv »

pjmlp wrote: post #258
antocv wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you mean? I too perform work for enterprises, getting payed to work with and in all things Linux, Java and Python. Just because its freedom software doesnt mean there is no money to be made or make.

I mean when I started working there wasn't open source as such. Maybe the local computer club or some rich guys that could pay for BBS connections exchanging stuff. Everything from hardware, text processing, drawing, music, compilers, editors,..., was provided by proprietary overlords.

Oh, you are ancient - respect!

I had luck, started around 1999 when RedHat 6.2 existed, with gcc, all from a free book and CD from the public library.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#267

Post by w1ntermute »

pjlegato wrote: post #80

A main reason to use Apple products is that the hardware and software are always bundled and guaranteed to work together without any additional tweaking or messing around. You turn it on and it just works. Both Windows and Linux suffer from the problem of attempting to support n different hardware configurations in a decentralized fashion, and neither has solved it very well.

Actually, I know people with MacBooks who regularly have problems with hibernation instability.

And the whole reason for having a choice in hardware configuration choice is because one-size-fits-all doesn't work too well in the real world. It might be fine for all the coders in San Francisco writing iPhone apps and Rails websites, but there are many factors that come into play for other people.

Some people can't afford an expensive laptop, want better specs, want to play games, want a touchscreen, want a full keyboard, etc. There are plenty of reasons for not going with whatever Apple has decided upon from on high.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#268

Post by rbanffy »

schmichael wrote: post #117
rbanffy wrote: post #109

I have 3 Linux laptops in the house. One with Intel running Ubuntu, another with Broadcom running Fedora and the third with a Prism interface running CentOS 6. All three work flawlessly. We also have 3 Macbooks, a white one, a Pro 13 and a Retina 13. All three work flawlessly with our Wi-fi. My wife had a corporate-issued HP laptop running Windows 7. It connected to our wireless once or twice over a year. I had a net…

a) Your personal anecdotes may not broadly apply. b) Just because Windows is worse doesn't mean Linux isn't frustrating. c) The post complains more about performance (rate, connect time, etc) and complexity (numerous overlapping components) than "Does it work at all".

> a) Your personal anecdotes may not broadly apply.

I'd say that if we were talking about a single computer, but here I have stories of 8 different computers with 8 different CPUs and 5 different wireless interfaces, radios, antennas and software all connected to a single wireless router.

If I got my numbers right, there is 81.41% chance this is not a fluke.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#269

Post by alrs »

serf wrote: post #161
alrs wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rtfm. Linux provides the architecture, the vendors ignore it and do it themselves. The Intel drivers require blobs. Broadcom used to require blobs that you had to cut out of Windows drivers yourself, though I have no idea what that's like now. The vendors use the excuse that this stuff requires FCC certification, and if they expose the low-level stuff some hax0rs will turn the wi-fi portion of the spectrum into CB ra…

which thinkpad are you using which locks to intel cards? I know that's a pretty common occurrence of thinkpads, but I hadn't heard one that was strictly manufacture specific. Most thinkpads i've encountered are "Use Intel 5400AGN OR Broadcom'blahblahblah',not 'Use Intel Only', and all of those thinkpads i've experienced that with have had BIOS reflash available to work around that particular problem. p.s. this messag…

Locks to "Lenovo provided" cards, I said. That leaves Lenovo-branded iwl or some rando Lenovo-branded Realtek(?) card that has terrible support.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#270

Post by diminoten »

rbanffy wrote: post #268
schmichael wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) Your personal anecdotes may not broadly apply. b) Just because Windows is worse doesn't mean Linux isn't frustrating. c) The post complains more about performance (rate, connect time, etc) and complexity (numerous overlapping components) than "Does it work at all".

> a) Your personal anecdotes may not broadly apply. I'd say that if we were talking about a single computer, but here I have stories of 8 different computers with 8 different CPUs and 5 different wireless interfaces, radios, antennas and software all connected to a single wireless router. If I got my numbers right, there is 81.41% chance this is not a fluke.

You have your numbers very, very wrong. You're about 10 or 11 orders of magnitude off.
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