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Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

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Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#81

Post by peeters »

nardi wrote: post #72
malandrew wrote: post #35

That video explanation made no sense to me. Basically the "interface" presented to the drivers has not changed, so why would drivers deviate from how they currently merge? Because the government said so? I don't see this working. However there are two solutions that could promote zipper merging: (1) Force both lanes to the center before moving that center lane to the side that is available ahead: ____________________…

Option 1 leads to "no, after you " behavior, steers two cars directly at each other, and probably would be a disaster.

Speaking about educating drivers, I wish we could just kill that mentality once and for all. It drives me crazy when someone obviously beats me to a stop sign, then waves me through as though they're doing me a favor. No my friend, you're just making it slower for both of us by not following the established rules of the road.

Thankfully my city is replacing as many stop signs as possible with traffic circles, where you'd have to be a complete idiot to yield to someone who got there after you.

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#82

Post by slantyyz »

dionidium wrote: post #73
slantyyz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Zipper merging is the optimal solution. People early merge because they think it is the optimal/moral/better/'done my part' solution. It is optimal only when the local driving culture allows it to be. I live in an area where drivers are extremely selfish and the police don't seem to spend a lot of time ticketing bad drivers, so zipper merging typically doesn't work here.

I live in an area where drivers are extremely selfish...so zipper merging typically doesn't work here. This is backwards. Zipper merging doesn't work when drivers attempt to be unselfish by merging early, which results in vigilante lane blockage of those who weren't as considerate. In other words, I'm not being selfish when I block late mergers; I'm enacting justice on other people who were being selfish. The system…

People used to zipper merge where I live... in the 80s. But the metro region I live in is much more dense than it used to be, and combined with the fact that the police don't spend a lot of time enforcing traffic laws, and that the public transportation system has poor coverage, traffic problems have skyrocketed.

One of the reasons why people early merge here is that many people don't let mergers in. And one of the reasons why people don't let mergers in is that they regularly get cut off by a second car after letting a merger in. It's a vicious circle.

Back in "the day", zipper merging wasn't even an issue. A lot of people early merge here because they'd rather be the one letting people in than hoping to be let in.

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#83

Post by anigbrowl »

dionidium wrote: post #73
slantyyz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Zipper merging is the optimal solution. People early merge because they think it is the optimal/moral/better/'done my part' solution. It is optimal only when the local driving culture allows it to be. I live in an area where drivers are extremely selfish and the police don't seem to spend a lot of time ticketing bad drivers, so zipper merging typically doesn't work here.

I live in an area where drivers are extremely selfish...so zipper merging typically doesn't work here. This is backwards. Zipper merging doesn't work when drivers attempt to be unselfish by merging early, which results in vigilante lane blockage of those who weren't as considerate. In other words, I'm not being selfish when I block late mergers; I'm enacting justice on other people who were being selfish. The system…

You're overlooking the situation where people merge out of the lane in a line without letting people who are already in the lane go through.

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#84

Post by hero454545 »

aenean wrote: post #6

Traffic management is a fascinating intersection of sociology, fluid dynamics, behavior change, and urban planning. If you're interested in this field, I can't recommend the work of Tom Vanderbilt enough. His book "Traffic" brought urban planning to the masses in the same manner "Freakonomics" made social and public policy accessible. http://tomvanderbilt.com/traffic/

here's a post you might enjoy:

http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/tr...

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#85

Post by neeleshs »

malandrew wrote: post #35

That video explanation made no sense to me. Basically the "interface" presented to the drivers has not changed, so why would drivers deviate from how they currently merge? Because the government said so? I don't see this working. However there are two solutions that could promote zipper merging: (1) Force both lanes to the center before moving that center lane to the side that is available ahead: ____________________…

#1 is what happens in Fremont,CA when cops are running a DUI check, works fairly well.

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#86

Post by neeleshs »

malandrew wrote: post #35

That video explanation made no sense to me. Basically the "interface" presented to the drivers has not changed, so why would drivers deviate from how they currently merge? Because the government said so? I don't see this working. However there are two solutions that could promote zipper merging: (1) Force both lanes to the center before moving that center lane to the side that is available ahead: ____________________…

#1 is what happens in Fremont,CA when cops are running a DUI check, works fairly well.

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#87

Post by slantyyz »

peeters wrote: post #68
slantyyz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Zipper merging is the optimal solution. People early merge because they think it is the optimal/moral/better/'done my part' solution. It is optimal only when the local driving culture allows it to be. I live in an area where drivers are extremely selfish and the police don't seem to spend a lot of time ticketing bad drivers, so zipper merging typically doesn't work here.

> It is optimal only when the local driving culture allows it to be. Yeah, which is why almost the entire article was about the campaigns to change the culture, not about justifying zipper merging as optimal.

Fair point, but it's easier to successfully campaign a low density region (i.e, a state with around 7M people like Washington) than a high density metro area (the metro area where I live in has 6M people, so traffic is already a daily nightmare).

Those campaigns in Washington and Minnesota just wouldn't fly here.

When our metro population was around <=3M, people still zipper merged (in the mid 90s and earlier).

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#88

Post by dubfan »

peeters wrote: post #81
nardi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Option 1 leads to "no, after you " behavior, steers two cars directly at each other, and probably would be a disaster.

Speaking about educating drivers, I wish we could just kill that mentality once and for all. It drives me crazy when someone obviously beats me to a stop sign, then waves me through as though they're doing me a favor. No my friend, you're just making it slower for both of us by not following the established rules of the road. Thankfully my city is replacing as many stop signs as possible with traffic circles, where y…

> Thankfully my city is replacing as many stop signs as possible with traffic circles, where you'd have to be a complete idiot to yield to someone who got there after you.

In Seattle, we have traffic circles in many of our residential neighborhoods. People still do this here. Another common thing is people taking lefts by just driving on the left side of the circle (I've had people honk at me for taking lefts the correct way)

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#89

Post by joshwa »

Noted wrote: post #50
kelnos wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've rarely seen people in (northern) California do proper zipper merges. CA has some of the most clueless and inattentive driving I've ever seen.

I rarely have seen issues in California with zipper merge, when the lanes are actually merging. Most of the time the issue I've seen is when people are cutting over from a turn only lane to try and force their way to go straight.

Turn-only lanes (using a turn-only lane to go straight) is where I see the worst cheater/vigilante behavior. (It's always BMW's who do it, too... )

Those turn-only lanes are just wasted capacity that could be used to carry more traffic into a zipper merge. I'm guessing that at some peak hour the turn lane has utility, but at reverse-peak they should be able to switch to a regular lane leading to a merge point.

Re: Washington, Minnesota officially endorse a “safer, faster” traffic merge

#90

Post by oostevo »

incision wrote: post #32
ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #4

In practice zipper merging works amazingly well. MNDOT has used signage to tell drivers to maintain speed and stay in their lanes for the past few years of construction in the northern Twin Cities. You wouldn't believe how much faster traffic moves when these simple reminders are posted. The problem is that without the signs (and enforcement) drivers in the Twin Cities Metro regularly shoot to seal any gap that may a…

>'I have driven in many states and never has the mentality that you cannot, MUST NOT, let someone ahead of you been as bad as it is here. Minnesota Nice, indeed.' We don't rule the lists anymore [1], but I'll put the horrible traffic and drivers of the DMV (DC, Maryland, Virginia) up against anyone in a gridlocked struggle for the title of worst. Though, I've routinely been told by people more traveled than myself th…

From my experience, South America, Africa, and the Middle East have horrifying traffic behavior, but at least everyone follows the same unofficial rules of the road. Eventually, you can somewhat reliably predict how someone on the road will behave.

Different areas in the US have very different driving cultures, and the transient nature of the DC area means that drivers bring their habits from wherever they came from, and so everyone is obeying slightly different driving cultural norms. It's a mess.

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