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How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

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Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#41

Post by broolstoryco »

smackfu wrote: post #17
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the middle of Germany. "Off road" means "across someone else's property, destroying a large strip of it". It looks like they had enough trouble getting it the last 7km. I presume the height of it means it won't fit under bridges on either road or canal.

Right. The better way to look at is is that once you exceed the size of the roads, land is extremely expensive to cross, while water is extremely cheap. So a 8993 km water journey + 7 km land journey can easily be cheaper than a 400 km land journey.

Im a bit surprised that that thing fit under all the bridges on the Danube

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#42

Post by brazzy »

astrodust wrote: post #26
nilsimsa wrote: post #23

Shouldn't this have been better planned out before they built it? Or was there no other choice?

I'm sure they had one of those "Oh..." moments when they realized there was something that didn't quite work out.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that this was planned and budgeted for very early in the project. This is highly specialized gear that you cannot just build smaller, let alone shop around for a maker closer to you.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#43

Post by msandford »

astrodust wrote: post #27
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the middle of Germany. "Off road" means "across someone else's property, destroying a large strip of it". It looks like they had enough trouble getting it the last 7km. I presume the height of it means it won't fit under bridges on either road or canal.

Germany is also home to enormously gigantic machines like the Bagger 288 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_288 ) that are so enormous you can see them from space. The scale of this thing is staggering. In one incident it accidentally scooped up a bulldozer: http://imgur.com/gallery/rU3XU Also shown there is what it looks like when it's on the move along a carefully planned and prepared route: http://i.imgur.com/5…

Jeebus that thing is huge. That wasn't a small bulldozer. It's not the biggest they make but it's definitely no joke. It weighs 18 tons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_D6

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#44

Post by InclinedPlane »

ISL wrote: post #13

For those wondering why you'd need such a thing, here's the KATRIN project's website: http://www.katrin.kit.edu/ and the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KATRIN In short, it's an experiment to directly measure the mass of the electron-type neutrino. Very occasionally, when tritium beta-decays, the electron carries away all the energy. If the neutrino has mass (and we are rather certain [1] that it does…

To followup: neutrinos have been established to have mass from neutrino oscillation experiments but those experiments have left a fairly large range of possible masses for neutrinos. Experiments like KATRIN will further pin down the properties of neutrinos as well as their rest mass.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#45

Post by darkmighty »

aylons wrote: post #2

Zeppelins could solve transport scenarios just like this one, where you must transport a huge cargo from/to specific locations far from the shore: http://rt.com/news/aeroscraft-revolutionary-airship-cargo-18... However, after hearing about this comeback for at least a decade, I'm a bit skeptic it will ever come true.

Look at the size of the hangar: (people for scale)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CargoLifter#mediaviewer/File:Br...

All this for an unsucessful zeppelin that could carry less than the required 200 tons. You'll be convinced very quickly that it doesn't trump simply carrying by land.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#46

Post by darkmighty »

fh973 wrote: post #3
aylons wrote: post #2

Zeppelins could solve transport scenarios just like this one, where you must transport a huge cargo from/to specific locations far from the shore: http://rt.com/news/aeroscraft-revolutionary-airship-cargo-18... However, after hearing about this comeback for at least a decade, I'm a bit skeptic it will ever come true.

One of these efforts graced the Berlin, Germany area with a huge hangar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CargoLifter Luckily, they found a new use for the structure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_Islands_Resort

Awesome use for that structure.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#47

Post by callesgg »

astrodust wrote: post #27
pjc50 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the middle of Germany. "Off road" means "across someone else's property, destroying a large strip of it". It looks like they had enough trouble getting it the last 7km. I presume the height of it means it won't fit under bridges on either road or canal.

Germany is also home to enormously gigantic machines like the Bagger 288 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_288 ) that are so enormous you can see them from space. The scale of this thing is staggering. In one incident it accidentally scooped up a bulldozer: http://imgur.com/gallery/rU3XU Also shown there is what it looks like when it's on the move along a carefully planned and prepared route: http://i.imgur.com/5…

You can't see that thing from space.

With optics you definitely would, but with optics you can see a single human from space.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#48

Post by femto »

diafygi wrote: post #34
aylons wrote: post #2

Zeppelins could solve transport scenarios just like this one, where you must transport a huge cargo from/to specific locations far from the shore: http://rt.com/news/aeroscraft-revolutionary-airship-cargo-18... However, after hearing about this comeback for at least a decade, I'm a bit skeptic it will ever come true.

Would high helium prices prevent this nowadays?

My first thought was why not just evacuate it, given that it's a vacuum vessel? It doesn't work though. Making some gross assumptions about its dimensions, its buoyancy when empty would be the weight of a few tons. Not enough to lift itself!

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#50

Post by ars »

diafygi wrote: post #34
aylons wrote: post #2

Zeppelins could solve transport scenarios just like this one, where you must transport a huge cargo from/to specific locations far from the shore: http://rt.com/news/aeroscraft-revolutionary-airship-cargo-18... However, after hearing about this comeback for at least a decade, I'm a bit skeptic it will ever come true.

Would high helium prices prevent this nowadays?

You'd have to use hydrogen. It's more dangerous of course, but it should be doable.
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