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How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

fogonazos.es

11–20 of 55 posts

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#11
post #8

I really have a hard time believing there was no lower cost solution for a 400 km trip by land as opposed to a 9000 km trip by land, sea, and land. What about an off road heavy transport trailer for the sections of road they can' t fit through. Or a quick build bridge structure similar to what is used by the military? Or some sort of land version of a lock (water transport)?

Assuming they could even get permission for a land route given the usual max weight is 40 tonnes, not 200.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#12
post #11
post #8

I really have a hard time believing there was no lower cost solution for a 400 km trip by land as opposed to a 9000 km trip by land, sea, and land. What about an off road heavy transport trailer for the sections of road they can' t fit through. Or a quick build bridge structure similar to what is used by the military? Or some sort of land version of a lock (water transport)?

Assuming they could even get permission for a land route given the usual max weight is 40 tonnes, not 200.

they must have, they went by land to and from the sea.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#13
For those wondering why you'd need such a thing, here's the KATRIN project's website:

http://www.katrin.kit.edu/

and the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KATRIN

In short, it's an experiment to directly measure the mass of the electron-type neutrino. Very occasionally, when tritium beta-decays, the electron carries away all the energy. If the neutrino has mass (and we are rather certain [1] that it does), then there's a little less energy to carry away. The giant MAC-E spectrometer (actually a chain of them, of which the big one is the last) is the only known way of resolving the 13,000 electron-volt electron to less than an electron-volt.

It's a very hard experiment, but it's important, and nobody knows an easier terrestrial path to the same knowledge (cosmology limits are equal to or better than KATRIN, but there's a big difference between the cosmos and something you can do on Earth).

(Edit: and for you vacuum jocks out there, that entire volume operates at UHV. It's electropolished internally, and for their vacuum test, it pumped to below 10^-7 Torr on a single 6-8" turbo before bakeout.)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Mass

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#14
post #8

I really have a hard time believing there was no lower cost solution for a 400 km trip by land as opposed to a 9000 km trip by land, sea, and land. What about an off road heavy transport trailer for the sections of road they can' t fit through. Or a quick build bridge structure similar to what is used by the military? Or some sort of land version of a lock (water transport)?

This is the middle of Germany. "Off road" means "across someone else's property, destroying a large strip of it". It looks like they had enough trouble getting it the last 7km.

I presume the height of it means it won't fit under bridges on either road or canal.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#15
post #6

Is it possible to have multiple helicopters work together to lift one object? If so, 10 of these could have done it :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26

Hard to see how ten helicopters could maintain enough horizontal separation to work safely while carrying the load. An airship might be a better alternative.

They could build a wide platform beneath it so the anchor points would be further apart.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#16
post #6

Is it possible to have multiple helicopters work together to lift one object? If so, 10 of these could have done it :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26

Hard to see how ten helicopters could maintain enough horizontal separation to work safely while carrying the load. An airship might be a better alternative.

Or combine both, and you get a Piasecki PA97 Helistat.

It worked poorly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jENWKgMPY

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#17
post #14
post #8

I really have a hard time believing there was no lower cost solution for a 400 km trip by land as opposed to a 9000 km trip by land, sea, and land. What about an off road heavy transport trailer for the sections of road they can' t fit through. Or a quick build bridge structure similar to what is used by the military? Or some sort of land version of a lock (water transport)?

This is the middle of Germany. "Off road" means "across someone else's property, destroying a large strip of it". It looks like they had enough trouble getting it the last 7km. I presume the height of it means it won't fit under bridges on either road or canal.

Right. The better way to look at is is that once you exceed the size of the roads, land is extremely expensive to cross, while water is extremely cheap. So a 8993 km water journey + 7 km land journey can easily be cheaper than a 400 km land journey.

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#18
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to see how ten helicopters could maintain enough horizontal separation to work safely while carrying the load. An airship might be a better alternative.

They could build a wide platform beneath it so the anchor points would be further apart.

[deleted]

Re: How to move a 200-ton spectrometer across Europe

#19
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to see how ten helicopters could maintain enough horizontal separation to work safely while carrying the load. An airship might be a better alternative.

Or combine both, and you get a Piasecki PA97 Helistat. It worked poorly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jENWKgMPY

Great share! That frame looked weak to the naked eye. Screw engineering calculations: anyone who's played a bridge-building game should have seen it coming!
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