The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi • Hacker News Board

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#141

Post by pwnna » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 9:47 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #108

clarry wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is copy-paste broken? I never had issues. Different programs use different conventions. For example, shift+insert does not do the same thing in say, xterm and firefox.

Chromium is slow to deliver the clipboard too (just containing text), so you press ctrl+v and wait for several seconds. Chromium and some others take the clipboard with them when the app is Quit, suddenly the clipboad is cleared.

Really? I use chromium on the odd occasion and never have to wait.. nor have I ever noticed the clearing of clipboard..

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#142

Post by dnr » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 9:49 PM UTC

ghostwords wrote: post #70

I ended up blacklisting the built-in card on my ThinkPad X220 because it was too flaky to rely on: $ cat /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-local.conf blacklist rtl8192ce I use a USB adapter instead (SMCWUSB-N2), which, besides providing wireless internet, is a fine reminder to just get a MacBook next time.

Yeah, the default card in my X220 was a piece of crap. I got one of these for $15 and replaced it myself (took 10 minutes) and it's been muuuuch better.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Advanced-N-6205-wifi-card-Thin...

(I remember this was actually a customization option when I bought it and I stupidly didn't pick it. So you don't have to get a macbook, just read carefully when you get another thinkpad.)

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#143

Post by mbq » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 9:57 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #128

So: - wireless chips are obscure and buggy - audio chips are obscure and buggy I wish for some organized effort to bring a few set of open hardware chips to replace proprietary ones that seem to only work easily on proprietary OSes. That would complement the work of guys like bunnie huang (novena laptop) and would let the linux world enjoy sound hardware for (allegedly) sound software. Maybe that's just a pipe dream…

Many chips/hardware pieces do already have a good Linux support, and the internet is full of info what will work perfect and what may cause problems.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#144

Post by oftenwrong » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 10:04 PM UTC

taylorbuley wrote: post #107

atomicfiredoll wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just here (on my laptop with speakers that have mysteriously stopped working) to second any comments relating to the sorry state of Linux audio.

It's a good thing my brightness settings are stuck at 100% or I wouldn't be able to upvote this comment.

Does xbacklight work?

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#145

Post by gnu8 » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 10:08 PM UTC

switch007 wrote: post #31

captainmuon wrote: post #2

One problem is that WiFi is completely opaque, especially but not only on Linux. You get no low-level and no debugging information. It just connects and you get some bars, or it doesn't. I never know where to start when debugging a bad connection, and I wouldn't know where to start if I wanted to improve Linux WiFi. For example, sometimes I can see a network, but can't connect. Why? I'd like to see something like "se…

I've never dug in to it before, but some googling just suggested /sys/kernel/debug/ieee80211/phy*/ e.g. # cat /sys/kernel/debug/ieee80211/phy*/netdev:*/stations/*/rc_stats rate throughput ewma prob this prob this succ/attempt success attempts 1 0.6 68.0 100.0 0( 0) 9 12 ...

Looks interesting, but which devices and drivers does it apply to? I have no expectation that this would work over every common wifi interface in current laptops (to say nothing of the typical home gateway with their embedded linux distribution and custom proprietary drivers).

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#146

Post by tormeh » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 10:10 PM UTC

DCKing wrote: post #47

tormeh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as long as our computers don't come with Linux preinstalled it will continue to be this way. This is what happens when your OS is a stranger in a strange land; it doesn't feel like it belongs there.

If desktop Linux ever became popular enough for computers to come with it preinstalled, it would immediately go down the binary blob driver path that Android is on. For vendors, the reasons to close up their drivers would be identical whatever OS their kernel drivers would run on top.

Of course, but it would at least work.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#147

Post by swinglock » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 10:11 PM UTC

captainmuon wrote: post #2

One problem is that WiFi is completely opaque, especially but not only on Linux. You get no low-level and no debugging information. It just connects and you get some bars, or it doesn't. I never know where to start when debugging a bad connection, and I wouldn't know where to start if I wanted to improve Linux WiFi. For example, sometimes I can see a network, but can't connect. Why? I'd like to see something like "se…

I feel the same way on Windows, but I've never attempted to dig deeper.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#148

Post by briandh » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 10:13 PM UTC

Pistos2 wrote: post #113

tdicola wrote: post #33

I would extend it out to laptops and Linux in general. I've tried a few times over the last 10 years or so to use Linux on normal consumer laptops (Dells, Thinkpads, etc.) and it's always a really bad experience. Wifi issues, battery life, etc. have major problems. In the end I just gave up trying and use a MacBook with virtualization for running Linux.

I think this just depends on the make and model. I did a bit of homework before purchase a few years ago (to ensure good compatibility with GNU/Linux), and my Dell Inspiron N7010 has been serving me faithfully for years. No major wifi issues, no battery life issues.

Similarly, I did some research before I bought my Dell Latitude E4310, and it works flawlessly with Ubuntu, and always has.* Graphics (both on screen and on external monitors), WiFi, sound, even Bluetooth.

It's not a guarantee, of course, but my general impression is that going with "pure Intel" (CPU, GPU, sound, WiFi) laptop helps ensure compatibility.

*It's possible that the battery life is worse than Windows; I wouldn't know, because I've never used Windows on it.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#149

Post by ChrisSlx » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 10:14 PM UTC

joelg236 wrote: post #124

jdjb wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is still a reason why every Linux install asks you to explicitly select that you want mp3 codecs insralled." Ubuntu is the only installer I know of that does this...

Mint does to, IIRC.

They use the same (or an extremely similar) installer last I checked.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#150

Post by dheera » Wed, Jul 23, 2014, 10:15 PM UTC

"The 5 GHz signal is just as strong" Interesting. My dormitory at MIT has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz signals. The 5GHz is extremely weak but my Android devices love to pick a weak 5GHz signal over the 2.4GHz and subsequently have terrible speeds.

On another note, I wish that browsers and applications would keep firing spawning and firing requests at a rate beyond human perception, until one succeeds. The state of browsing the web over Wi-Fi while moving from access point to access point is equally sad. I get an IP address, but applications almost universally refuse to retry their connections until the first zombie socket times out. Seriously, I shouldn't have to wait 10 seconds after each access point change. Should be more like OSes/Applications should be thinking "This is Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi is supposed to be fast. Since no bytes came in for a full 0.5 seconds, something is wrong. I'm going to keep opening/closing sockets like hell, change networks, change frequencies, whatever it takes to get data to come in the next 0.3 seconds and make the user happy."

Building devices with dual Wi-Fi cards may also offer ways to help alleviate the handover problem.