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Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

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Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#51

Post by mcdougle »

FreezerburnV wrote: post #29
mcdougle wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The third party graphics are helpful (but still make your eyes bleed) but the main issue is the controls -- I just couldn't get past how difficult it was to do anything. It's been a while since I've played, but if I remember, you couldn't use the mouse -- I bet adding that functionality would make it so much easier to get into the game.

It's interesting, I used to think the same way. (well, I still do to some extent) But after getting acclimated to using VIM bindings for coding, learning keyboard shortcuts for common things, etc., when trying out the new version the controls were surprisingly comfortable. Now granted, they still aren't really good controls by any stretch of the imagination. But I found it to be an interesting experience that as I've…

Hm. That makes sense. I use Gedit/Sublime for coding myself, only using VIM for a short period during college (never really cared to learn it more than I had to)

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#52

Post by thebelal »

dpeck wrote: post #14
pekk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that mean that DF will only "crush" one core rather than all of them? Is it really a big concern how well DF will scale? It's a game, it is made to be played. It isn't really meaningful to criticize games for whether they are multithreaded or not.

Yes, it will crush a core. It actually is a concern as DF in game (dwarf mode anyway) does a huge amount of pathfinding for the little buggers and other creatures. Not to mention item tracking and other bits. This means that once your fortress gets somewhere around 200 dwarfs you start getting into FPS death because it doesn't scale. So it actually as is a problem, and development of the game is going against the gra…

Back when I was hacking on DF ~4 years ago I believe it was actually the item tracking that was ruining performance in big forts. The main loop had to touch every item in the game every frame, including things like every rock mined by your dwarves. You can usually get significant speedup in big forts just by destroying all the spare rocks (I think the best way to do this in-game was put them under a bridge and then close it on top of them).

I ended up having more fun hacking on DF than playing it, but it is an interesting game.

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#53

Post by Natsu »

zyxley wrote: post #15

To quote myself from the last time I commented on an article about DF: I will continue to have no interest in Dwarf Fortress until it has an actual UI instead of whatever insane random combinations of controls the developer felt like adding on any particular day.

It's on par with using vi, but once you get over the speed bump it actually feels natural and you go through the menus without even thinking about it.

Granted, this isn't easy for everyone.

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#54

Post by Amezarak »

TillE wrote: post #9

The truly exciting thing about Dwarf Fortress is that it proves that deep, detailed simulation is well within our reach. It suggests whole new genres of games that have yet to be created; imagine a typical fantasy RPG (or perhaps one that plays more like Mount&Blade) where the entire world is simulated as you play, so every choice you make has logical consequences. The possibilities are endless, and while Dwarf Fortr…

Have you ever played DF's Adventure Mode? It is "sort of" like that now, and I'm pretty sure that's the end goal.

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#55

Post by NDizzle »

FreezerburnV wrote: post #4
erichurkman wrote: post #3

I encourage everyone to check out the game. It's quite crazy, and beginners inevitably lose due to the game's depth and crazy events ("Losing is fun!"). If the ASCII tile sets make your eyes bleed, there are other tile sets of graphics to try out. [0] There's also a very vibrant modding community, including a lot of memory hacking through the dfhack project [1] – even fixing a lot of longstanding bugs in the game, li…

"beginners inevitably lose" You seem to imply that it's possible to win ;)

The werehedgehog Xim Thogslockawe has come! A giant hedgehog twisted into humanoid form. Now you will know why you fear the night.

You will never win.

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#56

Post by [deleted] »

jeremysmyth wrote: post #26
presidentender wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing out. I mean, I assume that you're doing other things with your time and enjoying them instead, but Dwarf Fortress is a unique experience well worth a few hours every couple of years.

A few hours every couple of years? I admire your discipline. If I wait a couple of years to play, I end up losing a weekend or two to a few forts. I have to get my fix by spending a day or two every few months. No other game does that to me.

[deleted]

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#57

Post by Natsu »

TillE wrote: post #9

The truly exciting thing about Dwarf Fortress is that it proves that deep, detailed simulation is well within our reach. It suggests whole new genres of games that have yet to be created; imagine a typical fantasy RPG (or perhaps one that plays more like Mount&Blade) where the entire world is simulated as you play, so every choice you make has logical consequences. The possibilities are endless, and while Dwarf Fortr…

There are a lot of games inspired in one way or another by DF out there now, actually. But yes, it's an awesome game where the raws with the plant material properties now have scientific species names that they're based on, and the raws cite references for where they got the numbers.

This one, of course, being the most infamous - http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Saguaro/raw

As it was inspired by this 'artifact' - http://imgur.com/EPtgt?tags

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#58

Post by myrmidon »

zyxley wrote: post #15

To quote myself from the last time I commented on an article about DF: I will continue to have no interest in Dwarf Fortress until it has an actual UI instead of whatever insane random combinations of controls the developer felt like adding on any particular day.

In that case, you might want to give http://gnomoria.com/ a try, which is similar to dwarf fortress, but significantly less complex, easier to control, and looks decent out-of-the-box.

You might also be interested in https://www.factorio.com/ which is a game about building factories (free world, 2d isometric). Aside from being addictive, it is also performant, looks good, has a decent soundtrack and comes with all of it's ingame-stats conveniently embedded in Lua-sourcefiles (which you don't even have to parse-- just run them through the interpreter if you want to start modding/theorycrafting).

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with those games in any way, just promoting them because they're awesome (best entertainment/price ratio of anything I ever paid for).

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#59

Post by philsnow »

grimgrin wrote: post #22
zyxley wrote: post #15

To quote myself from the last time I commented on an article about DF: I will continue to have no interest in Dwarf Fortress until it has an actual UI instead of whatever insane random combinations of controls the developer felt like adding on any particular day.

At least many of these "insane random combinations of controls" follow a pretty OK mnemonic naming convention. b>c to build a chair b>d to build a door b>w>l to build a still (type of workshop, many other things under b>w)

This is the kind of stuff that always trips me up:

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/40d:Controls#Building...

Several different sets of keys to use depending on what you're manipulating, even though they all have to do with direction. I can never remember and always have to use the in-game help.

Whereas, when I play nethack or DCSS or brogue, 99% of the things my fingers do, they do without needing to consult their external memory (my brain).

The interface is so simple (okay, nethack's is not, but I started playing it at an early age, so it's baked in to my fingers now) that it's a joy to operate the game.

Once your brain doesn't have to drive your fingers, the interface becomes an extension of you and you achieve a kind of flow where you're interacting with the (game) world without thinking about it. Anybody who has learned to drive stick shift (especially if you already knew how to drive an automatic) knows this feeling.

Re: Polygon sat down with one of the creators of Dwarf Fortress

#60

Post by MrZongle2 »

redblacktree wrote: post #47
coder23 wrote: post #10

I think it a loss that a game with such original complexity has the most primitive graphics. Nobody wants 3D acceleration, but an upgrade to a simple 2D with sprites and effects with a better interface, would open it to a wider crowd.

You might be interested in Gnomoria[1]. It's not Dwarf Fortress, but is inspired by it. [1] http://gnomoria.com/

Gnomoria is one of the few "early access" games on Steam that seem to be working out well, despite the effort being a one-man operation. If Dwarf Fortress seems too intimidating, Gnomoria is a good place to start. It doesn't have anywhere near the depth of DF, but many of the core concepts are the same.

And it won't make your eyes bleed.

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