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The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

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Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#21
post #11

I stopped using NetworkManager years ago, I just use wpa_supplicant and dhcpcd directly (well I use the systemd services for these so they're started automatically). I also always name the 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks differently, and connect explicitly to the one I want. Yes it would be great if NetworkManager did the right things automatically, but the task might be impossible due to hardware and driver quirks. WiFi ch…

Yeah, NM rarely works correctly "Ah why don't you open a bug", because people are not interested in making it work (like a lot of "modern" Linux stuff) If it works manually (dhcp, wpa_supplicant, etc), I don't see what's the problem. Or better, I see: NM doesn't work. Yeah, unfortunately you're right about WiFi chips. It's about making the bare minimum hardware and shoving everything onto the drivers.

NM tries to be too clever. I have no idea what some of the options in the interface mean.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#22
post #20

My regular laptop with Win7 gave up the other day and I have been attempting to rebuild an old laptop with Linux as a temporary solution. I bought a cheap usb wifi dongle ... and lo and behold, support nightmare ensued. Eventually, I realized that I didn't make a right choice in buying that tiny dongle. So now I am on phase two of rebuilding old laptop with Linux, with a different brand of usb wifi (double the price…

Device manufacturers write drivers for Windows. They don't write drivers for Linux. So it's probably (mostly) the fault of the manufacturer. Another thing is that Windows has an abstraction layer called NDIS which network drivers communicate to. This abstraction is complete enough that if you have a compatibility layer for NDIS, you can usually use Windows drivers directly on Linux. The project is called ndiswrapper.…

Yup, ndiswrapper was one of the support routine. But even when things work, they don't work optimally, as the author is correctly claiming. But on the flip side, I should also mention that on another newer laptop with embedded wifi chip, I never had any wifi problems. Ultimately, I believe, Linux is probably suffering reputation - in comparison with Win/Mac - due to its multiple flavors and plethora of developmental end points. The lack of manufacturer support is just one of the issue.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#23
I can sympathize with this article. Every time my kernel is upgraded, I must manually recompile my wireless driver. I'm using a patched version of a Broadcom wireless driver that some kind soul on Github has been maintaining. If I was new to linux, there would be no way that I would have been able to get my wireless interface working in the first place. Linux has made vast improvements over the years in how well it works with so much hardware. There just seems to be more of a need for better wireless driver support.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is open-source. I suppose that these workarounds would make it into the mainline kernel if they existed.

>Android is open-source. But none of the WiFi drivers of Android devices are. If they've found an improved way to do WiFi, it's baked into the proprietary drivers.

And as long as our computers don't come with Linux preinstalled it will continue to be this way. This is what happens when your OS is a stranger in a strange land; it doesn't feel like it belongs there.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#25
I think it is unwise of him to generalize his issues to whole of Linux if he has only experience of one vendor and their drivers. Maybe the issues stem from problems in the Linux stack, or maybe they are vendor specific. Problem is that with a single datapoint you can't tell the difference.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#26
post #10
post #5

The author wrote: "a billion mobile devices running Linux and using Wi-Fi all the time". I would bet that Android has a separate implementation of some of the wifi stack to make it work better.

Android is open-source. I suppose that these workarounds would make it into the mainline kernel if they existed.

As the other poster mentioned, the driver and firmware can be closed source. The rest of the Android WiFi stack is very liberally licensed. The Android Java portion is apache and the supplicant is BSD. You can do a lot to tune the stack without sending code upstream.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#27
Copy paste, printing and networking. Biggest usability misses of Linux.

I don't consider these technical issues...but usability issues. Things like insisting on keeping the install ISO at 750 mb, leaves seamless driver support out of the todo list because...hey, there are no drivers anyway.

I'm really surprised there is not a paid version of Linux with these features baked in. I would GLADLY pay for all these (as well as the royalties for mp3,flash, etc)

EDIT: does anyone know if systemd-networkd would make things better [1]

[1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd-networkd

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#28

Copy paste, printing and networking. Biggest usability misses of Linux. I don't consider these technical issues...but usability issues. Things like insisting on keeping the install ISO at 750 mb, leaves seamless driver support out of the todo list because...hey, there are no drivers anyway. I'm really surprised there is not a paid version of Linux with these features baked in. I would GLADLY pay for all these (as wel…

Sound isn't too great either. The BlueZ developers for example decided to drop HSF/HSP support in BlueZ 5.x [1], which means there is no way to get a bluetooth headset (with a microphone) working on Linux anymore; there's just no way.

Although it's not like sound is great on Windows either.

[1] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Notes/5....

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#29

It only gets worse on headless/embedded/arm machines. The RPi list of Wi-Fi adapters gives something of a picture: http://elinux.org/RPi_USB_Wi-Fi_Adapters Note the number of ones which require some additional configuration steps, downloads, patches, or other monkeying around. And don't even get me started on connman and wicd.

I bet half those problems would go away if Rasbian Wheezy, with its ancient 3.2-based kernel, wasn't the default for many R-Pi users.

Re: The sad state of Linux Wi-Fi

#30
I recently helped a relative move an old Win XP machine to Ubuntu. I was going to move them to Lubuntu; however, the USB WiFi dongle they are using refused to cooperate -- or rather, the Lubuntu live disk I was testing refused to cooperate with it.

The dongle's chipset was Linux friendly and had apparently worked without major problems up to about Ubuntu 10.10 or so. Google revealed the eruption of numerous reports of problems at that time.

Problems that apparently persisted through several releases, for a good couple of years.

The solution that people found worked was to download driver source code from the chipset manufacturer (RA) and build it, with custom settings, on one's own machine. Some also found success with banning one or more apparently concurrently competing drivers from being loaded on their system. Per some descriptions, multiple compatible drivers would wrestle for control of the device, evincing symptoms matching what I'd experienced.

I was getting ready start a custom build and/or perhaps whacking driver loads -- after installing Lubuntu to get past the fixed Live CD configuration, when I thought to try the plain Ubuntu live disk as opposed to Lubuntu. Problem gone.

Working stuff breaks. Breaks persist for months if not years. Ostensibly compatible/comparable systems aren't.

I'm not going to complain; it is what we make of it. But still, today, we don't always do such a good job of making -- or maintaining.

Separately, the Ubuntu screen image on my relative's truly mass produced, 17" Dell LCD is shifted slightly to the right -- just enough to hide the rightmost few pixels. An old 17" LCD I have plugged into an old T42, has a similar shifting. Useable, but slightly annoying, particularly with respect to today's anorexic scroll bars.

I did a little research into the problem, months ago, but did not find a ready solution. Not WiFi, but still slightly to moderately awkward.

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