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No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

polygon.com

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Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#291

Post by cheez »

lucretian wrote: post #237
cheez wrote: post #17

> I lead a development studio that makes games. Sometimes, I write about issues in the games industry that relate to the equality of women. My reward is that I regularly have men threatening to rape and commit acts of violence against me. My suspicion is that she is not threatened because she leads a development studio, but because she is a writer. She's not asking for it, but she is making herself a public figure an…

> You perhaps won't outright hear of a man getting threatened with rape, except maybe in prison or during a competitive game, but you will definitely hear of men being hurt in different ways for having opinions that make people uncomfortable. it's rather bizarre that you managed to transform this story into something about men when the article is pretty clearly about the uniquely violent verbal abuse women are subjec…

Really?

Because the article literally says:

> I’ve personally never heard of a man in the games industry getting rape threats for having an opinion.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#292

Post by enraged_camel »

jev wrote: post #259
enraged_camel wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be missing the important part, where we are comparing death threats made against adult male sports players and rape threats made against women. Death threats against players are made as a way of voicing displeasure with the player's performance or the result of the game. The intent is to air frustration. Since competitive sports themselves are a way of bringing out the human primal side, being the target…

How many people would be offended at the statement "white people can't see the colour purple"? Very few, I'd imagine, because it's patently ridiculous. If you imply that women are inferior though, the statement has to be vigorously opposed. Imply that feminism isn't necessary, and the tumblr and twitter brigades will come out to shame and silence you, until you agree that women have it harder. It's absurd behaviour f…

>>If you imply that women are inferior though, the statement has to be vigorously opposed.

I said perceived inferiority. I didn't say they are inferior.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#293

Post by Zikes »

mperd wrote: post #290
Zikes wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're impressed there weren't more comments like mine? Can I ask what it is about my comment that you did not like?

Your comments in this thread are about dismissing the message of the article, by reversing the roles (you talk about men being "harassed" by this article), by using rhetoric analysis (which looks to me like an excuse to share two links that have nothing to do with the article). Sure, anyone can pick flaws in an article, especially in a piece of opinion like this one. One could go on and on about how this is biased, h…

I have not once in my comments on this thread said that women do not face harassment, which is the stated message of the article.

What I have done, is point out the many, many ways in which that message has been used as a front to put forth sexist and propagandist messages intended to disparage men. Those two links directly follow my statement calling out the unacceptable assertions the article's author put forth that men are primarily at fault and cannot sympathize or understand the author's position.

I will not give any message wrapped in that sort of hate speech the time of day, and I certainly will not thank them for it.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#294

Post by georgiapeach »

hackuser wrote: post #265
shrnky wrote: post #247

How does the Feminist movement square itself with the fact that many women actually like being prized for their beauty and sex appeal? I'd like to start a campaign called "It's cool." It would require some form of an indicator. A sticker or button perhaps? Women who like having their beauty and/or sex appeal noticed could wear it on their person. Posters with these women could have it on display. Men would know, "It'…

> How does the Feminist movement square itself with the fact that many women actually like being prized for their beauty and sex appeal? I didn't see any mention of appreciating beauty and sex appeal. I read an article about rape threats, degrading comments about appearance, and objectification of women. I don't know if you mean to equate those things, but they are not equal. Also, 'prizing' women is objectification…

You played the part of the toxic feminist in OP's comment beautifully, and you didn't even realize that you were doing it!

It's hilarious!

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#295

Post by georgiapeach »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #176
tomp wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I disagree. I have no problem my coworkers saying dick/sex/insulting/racist/etc jokes, whether they are male or female. If I worked at a company that claimed to have a "relaxed" office culture (i.e. most startups, not corporations), I would strongly voice my opinion that such censorship is inappropriate. The recent case of an Attlasian developer making a joke about his girlfriend at a conference comes to…

A "relaxed" office culture means that "dick/sex/insulting/racist/etc jokes" are acceptable? This might be the most amazingly asinine comment I have ever encountered on HN. The type of "jokes" you refer to are usually not only not funny to the people who have to listen to them, they can create huge liabilities for the companies dumb enough to employ the out-of-touch fool who thinks he's the office's Dave Attell. "But…

Please show me precedent of a successful discrimination suit based on nothing more than a joke.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#296

Post by georgiapeach »

Jemaclus wrote: post #156
tomp wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I disagree. I have no problem my coworkers saying dick/sex/insulting/racist/etc jokes, whether they are male or female. If I worked at a company that claimed to have a "relaxed" office culture (i.e. most startups, not corporations), I would strongly voice my opinion that such censorship is inappropriate. The recent case of an Attlasian developer making a joke about his girlfriend at a conference comes to…

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? It's not about whether you're cool with it -- it's about whether everyone is cool with it. Just because you like dick jokes doesn't mean that your female coworkers (or any of them, really) are comfortable with it. Since you can't speak for everyone, and some people can't speak up for themselves without making themselves targets, then it's your responsibility as a member of the team t…

I find your pro-censorship position completely offensive and inappropriate and unacceptable, not just in the workplace, but anywhere in civilized society.

What now?

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#297

Post by georgiapeach »

clay_to_n wrote: post #177
thinkpad20 wrote: post #163

I'm a male in the software industry, and I never really know what to make of these sorts of articles. It's terrible that someone should have to go through this. The anonymity of the internet is a great and terrible thing -- some people really get off on being horrible to people, and unfortunately when that person is a male, and they know they're talking to a woman, the low-hanging fruit is base sexism. But what is su…

I think you need to stop reading things like this as "demonizing half of humanity." You being offended by an article like this is actually part of the problem, it results in silencing articles like this because some men don't like them, or don't feel like it applies to them. Personally, as a male who isn't nearly as terrible as many of the men in this article, I think these articles are important. It is worth reading…

I just want you to know that you are part of the problem. You are perpetrating the toxic, disgusting, shameless misandry in the article. You definitely need to know that, and you need to take steps to address it.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#298

Post by georgiapeach »

imgabe wrote: post #244
shrnky wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I have no choice but to deal with racist people from time time and am constantly repeating the phrase, "not all (insert race) people are like that." Is that a "Red Herring?"

I think that is almost exactly the opposite situation. You want to derail someone's racist diatribe, as whatever nonsense they're spouting is not a real problem that needs to be addressed.

What if the diatribe targets straight white men? Is it OK then?

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#299

Post by Zikes »

scott_s wrote: post #288
Zikes wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no misunderstanding. The parent comment is trying to reinforce the practice of pitting the genders against each other and continues to argue that men need condescendingly "lectured" on the matter. My change in wording is meant to show how ridiculous a notion that is. Sexist remarks in articles such as this are getting a free pass because at one time feminism served a purpose, and today's hypersensitive polit…

The view of the piece's author is that there are things going on that women experience that some men are not aware of. She is trying to explain those things. You feel this is being "condescendingly lectured", and I don't see a way around it. Being receptive to someone explaining something to you requires that you: 1. acknowledge you do not know or understand that thing; 2. acknowledge that the other person does; 3. a…

I feel like you've ignored everything I've said up to this point. If the article had simply been an account of those four women's experiences, I would likely have no criticisms of it.

Instead, it's written as a hit piece and men are the target. I know exactly how hyperbolic that sounds, but it is the truth.

At every opportunity, men are painted as the problem: men aren't listening, men aren't doing this, men are saying that, men need to read this entire article of Do's and Don'ts to dictate their behavior towards women.

See my other comment in this thread[1] for just a few excerpts from the article I take issue with. I could provide more, as that's only going as far as the very first anecdotal account, but I would think they would be sufficiently convincing.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8070340

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#300

Post by chaostheory »

chillingeffect wrote: post #191
chaostheory wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reverse discrimination isn't much of an answer. It's just a temporary hack that doesn't fix the real problem.

Yes, and plastic doesn't conduct electricity well, so why keep trying to force electricity through it? The problem as stated was "How can I make everyone in my game studio behave the way I want?" That is like sending electricity through plastic. The real problem is: "How can I earn a living to feed my family doing what I love to do in a safe environment?" My answer is the answer to the real problem. If you think you…

A conductor whose properties don't change is a bad analogy to the human psych, which can change for better or worse depending on the environment.

> The problem as stated was "How can I make everyone in my game studio behave the way I want?" That is like sending electricity through plastic.

No it isn't. You can influence it or change it through culture and rules. We're not static machines.

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