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A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

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Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#31

Post by mcb3k »

acqq wrote: post #21
droopybuns wrote: post #8

The contrast of perspectives between Ellsburg's plea for the moral imperatives for leaking and Snowden's resistance to shaming those who don't leak was really interesting. It seems like Ellsburg had developed a real contempt for all of us in America until Manning and Snowden came along.

There was no Ellsburg there, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg A great guy, you should read about his life. Or even easier, watch "The Most Dangerous Man in America" documentary (cca 90 min).

Are you giving him flak for misspelling Ellsberg? Because otherwise Daniel Ellsberg was the keynote speaker at HOPE X (which the keynote was right before Snowden's talk), and was the one asking the questions to Snowden.

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#32

Post by dobbsbob »

If Snowden ever does get a trial, they won't prosecute him for anything he leaked to avoid his justifiable defense. He admitted transporting classified docs to China that were never released because the information did not involve illegal surveillance. They can put him away for life just for admitting to mishandling top secret data regardless if he released it or not. Pretty sure there are clear rules on storing that data and none include taking it on laptops to China encrypted by software likely not approved. He can never come back because of talking too much to the media, all that can be used against him

Watch this http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc then imagine you are a federal prosecutor tasked with prosecuting Snowden. Go through all his interviews and find crimes he admitted to not related to the 200k docs he sent to journalists to prevent any defense. Bonus points find inconsistent statements you can manipulate to claim he is a liar to further wash away any defense. Automated tools to grab indiscriminate secret docs, illegal transportation, tons of potential crimes there based on his own admissions alone.

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#33

Post by acqq »

mcb3k wrote: post #31
acqq wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no Ellsburg there, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg A great guy, you should read about his life. Or even easier, watch "The Most Dangerous Man in America" documentary (cca 90 min).

Are you giving him flak for misspelling Ellsberg? Because otherwise Daniel Ellsberg was the keynote speaker at HOPE X (which the keynote was right before Snowden's talk), and was the one asking the questions to Snowden.

Of course I know that Ellsberg was asking the questions and I am aware of the keynote. For me, the misspelling of the name and the dubious and trollish claim of the "contempt for all of us in America" don't appear like written by somebody who even understands what Ellsberg actually did. I can write "citation needed" since Ellsberg definitely hasn't expressed "contempt for all of us in America" but then we're dancing to the troll's tune.

Instead, I really suggest learning more about Ellsberg, it's definitely worth, in my opinion.

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#34

Post by Canada »

Surveillance will occur to the extent that we allow it to. Spies gonna spy. If we have a problem with that then we have to learn to secure our devices and we need to deploy user friendly end to end encryption for the masses. And we need trustworthy, open implementations of critical infrastructure... baseband (software radios, mobile protocols), drivers, etc.

It's 2014 and I still can't get an decent open source workgroup switch let alone a complete cell phone and base station to go with it. ASOP, OpenBTS, and the Wedge are encouraging, but none of these are enough.

Anyone remember the anti-sec movement? Well, they got what they wanted. Nobody discloses anything good for free anymore. Pretty much all the 0 day is now in the hands of established power, just another tool of control in their increasingly well equipped tool belts. The rest of us are either completely defenseless, or mostly defenseless and paying by the hour. I hope they're happy with how it's all turned out.

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#35

Post by droopybuns »

acqq wrote: post #33
mcb3k wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you giving him flak for misspelling Ellsberg? Because otherwise Daniel Ellsberg was the keynote speaker at HOPE X (which the keynote was right before Snowden's talk), and was the one asking the questions to Snowden.

Of course I know that Ellsberg was asking the questions and I am aware of the keynote. For me, the misspelling of the name and the dubious and trollish claim of the "contempt for all of us in America" don't appear like written by somebody who even understands what Ellsberg actually did. I can write "citation needed" since Ellsberg definitely hasn't expressed "contempt for all of us in America" but then we're dancing…

Eek. I didn't intend to sound trollish. I was on a mobile earlier and it didn't encourage great eloquence.

I greatly admire Ellsberg's courage and moral consistency.

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#36

Post by acqq »

droopybuns wrote: post #35
acqq wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I know that Ellsberg was asking the questions and I am aware of the keynote. For me, the misspelling of the name and the dubious and trollish claim of the "contempt for all of us in America" don't appear like written by somebody who even understands what Ellsberg actually did. I can write "citation needed" since Ellsberg definitely hasn't expressed "contempt for all of us in America" but then we're dancing…

Eek. I didn't intend to sound trollish. I was on a mobile earlier and it didn't encourage great eloquence. I greatly admire Ellsberg's courage and moral consistency.

Thanks a lot for the explanation droopybuns. Do see the documentary once, I'd be interested to know your impression on it.

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#37

Post by adnsr »

The big difference between the two is, that Edward Snowden realized that a positive vision is needed. Full respect for whistleblowing, but people need an alternative vision of society they can work towards. I would like to see more Hackers follow this approach of inspiring people to use technology to empower people. I mean we all know that evil things happen, so there is no point in repeating it all the time. The majority of people won't care. Especially here in germany the focus is way too much on influencing the world by talking. What Edward says goes in the right direction, but the vision is still too biased towards privacy concerned people. It's not about making encryption more accessable, it's about building great products people want to use and building encryption in as a byproduct. Lets take socialnetworks for example: Facebook is highly addictive, but without real value for the consumers. They don't want to connect the world, they want to generate adrevenue. It should be possible to build a platform where communication happens in a less perverted, self-centered way with encryption added on.

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#38

Post by dllthomas »

dobbsbob wrote: post #32

If Snowden ever does get a trial, they won't prosecute him for anything he leaked to avoid his justifiable defense. He admitted transporting classified docs to China that were never released because the information did not involve illegal surveillance. They can put him away for life just for admitting to mishandling top secret data regardless if he released it or not. Pretty sure there are clear rules on storing that…

"He can never come back because of talking too much to the media, all that can be used against him"

He can come back if he's pardoned.

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#39

Post by dllthomas »

dublinben wrote: post #23

Does anyone find it slightly odd that Snowden was (quite obviously) joining the presentation over a Google hangout? I suppose it's better than a Skype call, but shouldn't he know better? I would expect him to insist on using Jitsi or something similar, like Jacob Appelbaum does for his appearances.

... because the NSA might be able to monitor his public broadcast?

Re: A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

#40

Post by aestetix »

dublinben wrote: post #23

Does anyone find it slightly odd that Snowden was (quite obviously) joining the presentation over a Google hangout? I suppose it's better than a Skype call, but shouldn't he know better? I would expect him to insist on using Jitsi or something similar, like Jacob Appelbaum does for his appearances.

I helped set the presentation up. Jitsi is actually the ideal choice, but it's too unstable for something like this. Google Hangouts was used at Snowden's request.
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