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No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

polygon.com

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Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#161

Post by vezzy-fnord »

iandanforth wrote: post #143

I support and applaud the author. I will offer one negative reaction so that if others wish to avoid this reaction, or preempt it, they will be aware. Throughout the article I was looking for actionable suggestions, at the end I was told that "Listening" was key. This plays directly into my stereotypes. In other words, I was not surprised. The article had less impact because it failed to offer a memorable and surpris…

The people who do this type of harassment aren't alphas. By definition, alphas are renowned for their prowess. The people described in the article would be omegas, most likely. Your hate is misguided.

At least be alpha enough to spell out the word "fuck".

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#162

Post by dubfan »

Jemaclus wrote: post #81
hnnewguy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought It's pretty much my first thought when I see any woman (and some men). I can't help it, it's the product of us being animals. Who cares. I don't feel guilty, and certainly don't hate myself for it. > I hope I don't have a daughter. Oh brother...

> Oh brother... Ha. I don't mean that I don't want a daughter... It's just that every time I think about having a daughter, I think about these issues, and it scares the shit out of me. Raising a son, I wouldn't have to worry that much about this stuff, and I could focus on helping him help make the world a better place, instead of worrying about whether my daughter is gonna get raped because she wore short shorts to…

> I really have no preference as far as kids go, it's just that when I read articles like this, the idea of having a daughter seems terrifying.

This is like the tech equivalent of suburbanites who never go to the city because of all the news reports of murders they see on the nightly news. These outlets take a serious but infrequent problem and exaggerate it into an epidemic for the eyeballs (and hence, ad revenue).

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#163

Post by thinkpad20 »

I'm a male in the software industry, and I never really know what to make of these sorts of articles. It's terrible that someone should have to go through this. The anonymity of the internet is a great and terrible thing -- some people really get off on being horrible to people, and unfortunately when that person is a male, and they know they're talking to a woman, the low-hanging fruit is base sexism. But what is supposed to be done about it? More specifically, what am I supposed to do about it? I know that I find that kind of behavior abhorrent. I would never think that stuff, let alone say it. Knowing my coworkers as I do, I'm 99% sure that the same can be said of them. So, I just don't know how to respond to this. Should I feel guilty? For what? I didn't do this stuff. The issue that I have with this is that I feel like I'm supposed to feel like a bad person because of my gender. Quotes like "men tend to inherently [insert stereotype here]" are apparently great enough to be made inspirational posters out of. Is the author oblivious to this sexism? Or is it OK, because it's targeting men?

I think it's deplorable what the author and the women she describes have gone through. I think that we all should re-examine our behavior to ensure that we aren't perpetrating this sort of thing. But I wish that the article, and others like it, weren't couched in terms of demonizing half of humanity.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#164

Post by enraged_camel »

cheez wrote: post #114
sp332 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those abusers will target any woman they can find. If a woman is not getting abuse from some of them it's only because they haven't found her yet.

That is correct. Abusers, whether male or female, will find their target.

That's not quite true. Women are much more likely to receive threats because they are more vulnerable. Just like bullies pick on those they perceive to be weak, abusers target those they perceive to be easy targets.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#166

Post by tomp »

Jemaclus wrote: post #156
tomp wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I disagree. I have no problem my coworkers saying dick/sex/insulting/racist/etc jokes, whether they are male or female. If I worked at a company that claimed to have a "relaxed" office culture (i.e. most startups, not corporations), I would strongly voice my opinion that such censorship is inappropriate. The recent case of an Attlasian developer making a joke about his girlfriend at a conference comes to…

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? It's not about whether you're cool with it -- it's about whether everyone is cool with it. Just because you like dick jokes doesn't mean that your female coworkers (or any of them, really) are comfortable with it. Since you can't speak for everyone, and some people can't speak up for themselves without making themselves targets, then it's your responsibility as a member of the team t…

I disagree - maybe because I only perceive speech as "offensive" if it's directly insulting to a targeted person - which impersonal jokes (whether "dick jokes" or any other jokes) are not. In any case, I would rather err on the side of freedom, allow most communications (except insults, secrets, and whatever is illegal, such as hate speech), and rely on people to proactively say they are uncomfortable with something. I understand that not everyone wants that, but then again, I would prefer to not have to wear a suit to work, while others might. We just won't work together.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#167

Post by [deleted] »

Zikes wrote: post #51
arrrg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all men, eh? Don’t be so sensitive, grow a thicker skin! Is it really so hard for you to believe that you can’t understand – at least not completely – the situation someone is in? I would never be so arrogant as to believe that I, as someone who is straight, understand how it is to grow up gay, for example.

It's good to see that sloganeering and thought-terminating cliches will drive what could have been a proper debate on the issue. I guess there's no room at all for dissenting opinions, especially when they point out hypocrisies or bring counter evidence to the discussion.

[deleted]

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#168

Post by [deleted] »

enraged_camel wrote: post #155
cheez wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the area of competitive sports, it is pretty common to receive death threats for athletes who do not perform well. I'm not saying it's right. It's not. I'm saying that the reader needs to tease apart the two.

>>In the area of competitive sports, it is pretty common to receive death threats for athletes who do not perform well. You are making this comparison because you haven't fully thought things through. In your mind, death is worse than rape, therefore receiving death threats is worse than receiving rape threats. But it's not so simple. Rape threats are significantly worse than death threats, for a similar reason that…

[deleted]

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#169

Post by tonypace »

thinkpad20 wrote: post #163

I'm a male in the software industry, and I never really know what to make of these sorts of articles. It's terrible that someone should have to go through this. The anonymity of the internet is a great and terrible thing -- some people really get off on being horrible to people, and unfortunately when that person is a male, and they know they're talking to a woman, the low-hanging fruit is base sexism. But what is su…

How are you (or all of us men) being demonized? She describes a few things she and other people have gone through. She says she doesn't feel safe. She asking people not to tell her to have a thicker skin. That's the article, more or less. Where is the demonization?

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#170

Post by Zikes »

sp332 wrote: post #150
Zikes wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you disagree with any of the points I've made, I'm all ears. I did not make that comment in some lame attempt to troll or stir up controversy. I have presented my case against using the harassment of women in gaming as an excuse to target and harass the male demographic, and I'm willing to discuss it further with anyone that's interested.

As a male, I didn't feel targeted by the article. I don't think the article was anti-men, it was just pro-women which is not the same thing. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking what kind of harassment I could get as a result of the article.

> I’ve personally never heard of a man in the games industry getting rape threats for having an opinion.

> A male friend of mine that develops AAA games told me, "When a woman criticizes me, it goes to a different part of my brain than when a man on my team does. I get defensive really quickly. I’m trying to get better about it." I don’t think his is a unique experience.

> We live in a society that’s sexist in ways it doesn’t understand. One of the consequences is that men are extremely sensitive to being criticized by women. I think it threatens them in a very primal way, and male privilege makes them feel free to lash out.

I don't know how anyone, male or female, could read that excerpt and not be offended.

First, it starts out by basically asserting the premise that men do not get rape threats.

Second, it quotes one man as saying he reacts viscerally to criticisms from women and then asserts that this is typical behavior for men.

Third, it says society is sexist in ways it doesn't understand, asserts men are extremely sensitive to criticism from women, and then calls them primal and invokes male privilege.

This is hashtag feminism as its worst. It's building flimsy pretexts on top of anecdotal evidence, and hiding it in an article about harassment women face in an attempt to lend it some sort of legitimacy. It's as bad as the "think of the children!" excuses used to pass laws, and just as insidious because it is automatically above reproach in exactly the same way. It's clearly demonstrated right here in the way any comment at all that disagrees with the author is immediately set upon with downvotes, rather than reasonable discourse.

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