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No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

polygon.com

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Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#81

Post by Jemaclus »

hnnewguy wrote: post #52
Jemaclus wrote: post #31

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

> I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought It's pretty much my first thought when I see any woman (and some men). I can't help it, it's the product of us being animals. Who cares. I don't feel guilty, and certainly don't hate myself for it. > I hope I don't have a daughter. Oh brother...

> Oh brother...

Ha. I don't mean that I don't want a daughter... It's just that every time I think about having a daughter, I think about these issues, and it scares the shit out of me. Raising a son, I wouldn't have to worry that much about this stuff, and I could focus on helping him help make the world a better place, instead of worrying about whether my daughter is gonna get raped because she wore short shorts today. That make sense?

I really have no preference as far as kids go, it's just that when I read articles like this, the idea of having a daughter seems terrifying.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#82

Post by _pmf_ »

Jemaclus wrote: post #31

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

> Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch.

Are you really under the delusion that women do not react that way to an attractive man?

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#83

Post by eli »

orf wrote: post #18

It's depressing that the first few top level comments here have been deleted due to their ridiculous content, people presumably read the article then decided to post things like "its banter, get over it. Men deal with it all the time". Just shows how deep the problem goes I guess.

If it makes you feel better, the ones I saw suggested they had not, in fact, read the article.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#84

Post by worldsayshi »

samirmenon wrote: post #65
Jemaclus wrote: post #31

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

I don't know, I'm gay, and when I see a picture of Benedict Cumberbatch or Robert Downey Jr, I certainly don't think "Damn, he's accomplished and brilliant"; I think "Damn, he's hot!"

I don't think that judging attractiveness in itself automatically leads to poor judgement about the person. You find your partner attractive (hopefully) but that doesn't mean that you see ver as incompetent. The problem is when you you can't keep things separated I suppose.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#85

Post by randunel »

Gaming is full of rage, everywhere. Sore losers will always attack their opponents. They usually stick to generic attacks, unless they know something about you, when it gets specific. If you play a certain class, some insults will contain class specific terms. If they roughly know your age, they will either call you immature or too old to be alive. If they know where you're from or your religion, they will use racist insults. If they know your gender, they will use that to make their insults hurt you more.

This post reminded me of the there's-nothing-you-can-do-about-them "I want to stick my long-necked giraffe up your fluffy white bunny" http://habitatchronicles.com/2007/03/the-untold-history-of-t... .

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#86

Post by Geekette »

Geekette wrote: post #41

These are the sorts of issues that make one wish anonymity online was impossible or always traceable. The cowardice that lives in people is astounding. For those muttering the free speech line: freedom of speech ≠ freedom of consequences.

Not sure why I'm being downvoted for wishing for an environment where people wouldn't be able to send rape/death threats anonymously and responding to the comment (now deleted) that defended such threats as free speech.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#87

Post by scotty79 »

Jemaclus wrote: post #31

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

> ... "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch.

That's weird. When I see them I think they are good (or at least interestingly) looking and have pleasant voices. I would never think of them as brilliant or accomplished (even though I know they are) because they do something I have no idea about. Just the same when I saw worlds best CEO, lawyer, window cleaner, bus driver, mercenary or whoever. I have no idea and I don't really care what it means to be brilliant and accomplished at those jobs. It might be horrible. It's just too alien for me.

When I see Marissa Mayer I have a mixed feelings. I notice she's attractive, and I'm happy this didn't get in a way of her reaching her goals. On the other hand I'm sad that most of the attention she get's from the media is just because she's an attractive woman. I'm also sad that I see a geek that transitioned to management which is always a loss of a good brain.

Could people who downvote me explain why and in what way my thoughts are damaged?

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#88

Post by cobrausn »

icebraining wrote: post #61
coldtea wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article notes this. Women shouldn't be expected to distance themselves from a very real threat of physical violence, which men simply don't face to anything close to the same degree. Mean deal with threats of physical violence all the time. Including actual attacks, which is far more common between men. They just don't deal with rape threats/attacks.

I don't. Where in the software development industry do men deal with threats of physical violence "all the time"? On average, men may deal with more attacks, but that's comparing people in prison with game developers, which is fallacious, to say the least.

We are specifically discussing the games industry, which has a much higher than average rate of bullshit that gets hurled at the devs from across the internet. There are links scattered all over this discussion thread that show that.

If the argument is that women receive more than men on average and that the threats include sexual violence (which it rarely does against men), I won't argue that.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#89

Post by socrates1998 »

Yeah, this is bad. It really is about the culture in which we are raised.

Boys are raised to deal with these types of insults and threats by standing up for yourself and being assertive (even aggressive) when dealing with hate.

So, boys learn to seek out weakness and exploit it. Boys also learn that from an early age, when you talk shit or are an asshole that you could end up doing it to the wrong person and end up with a whole world of shit.

And by the time they are older, boys have generally learned this lesson. Essentially, boys learn to fear other boys.

However, boys don't learn to fear women in the same way, so they continue this type of asshole behavior to adult women since they don't fear the repercussions.

Basically, women in the gaming industry are not raised in the culture are seen as weak outsiders who can't defend themselves (easy targets for assholes).

It's sad and I don't really see a way around it.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#90

Post by cheez »

eli wrote: post #75
cheez wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the area of competitive sports, it is pretty common to receive death threats for athletes who do not perform well. I'm not saying it's right. It's not. I'm saying that the reader needs to tease apart the two.

Tease what apart?

An anonymous woman in tech is not the same as a woman publicly writing about her perspective on women in tech.

Change "woman in tech" to something like support for/against gay marriage.

I may have my own opinion, but once I voice it, I'm a target.

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