A Conversation with Edward Snowden at HOPE X [video]

Post by Create » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 2:32 PM UTC

dreamweapon wrote: post #9

Create wrote: post #7

We begin therefore where they are determined not to end, with the question whether any form of democratic self-government, anywhere, is consistent with the kind of massive, pervasive, surveillance into which the Unites States government has led not only us but the world. This should not actually be a complicated inquiry. http://snowdenandthefuture.info/events.html Surveillance is not an end toward totalitarianism, it…

Surveillance is not an end toward totalitarianism, it is totalitarianism itself. That's quite an oversimplification.

Post by dreamweapon » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 2:38 PM UTC

Create wrote: post #11

dreamweapon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance is not an end toward totalitarianism, it is totalitarianism itself. That's quite an oversimplification.

The second meeting took place in October 1988 at a summer resort in Western Virginia, sad and grey this particular autumn. The Americans turned up in force. Bill Bostwick, from the Department of Energy was the Chairman, Barry Leiner from the Department of Defense and Vint Cerf were present. The European representatives were thin on the ground: a German and British representative plus François Flückiger. In 1991, 80%…

Post by krapp » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 2:46 PM UTC

cryoshon wrote: post #10

dreamweapon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance is not an end toward totalitarianism, it is totalitarianism itself. That's quite an oversimplification.

Surveillance provides knowledge. Knowledge is power. Also oversimplified, but I'm pretty sure that's the line of reasoning. I'm not convinced that it's wrong.

Post by nitrogen » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 3:07 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #15

cryoshon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveillance provides knowledge. Knowledge is power. Also oversimplified, but I'm pretty sure that's the line of reasoning. I'm not convinced that it's wrong.

But if you work from the premise that if totalitarianism is evil, and an inevitable function of power, which itself is an inevitable function of knowledge, then you've proven that knowledge is fundamentally evil, haven't you? There may be some dimension of truth here but i'm not entirely sure the premise does more good than harm.

Post by eevilspock » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 3:31 PM UTC

dreamweapon wrote: post #14

dreamweapon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoter: I'll take that as a compliment.

Yeah keep going, if it makes you feel good. The fun part about dealing with people who are attracted to catchy slogans and binaristic thought generally is that they tend to get really touchy when you call them on it. Which is what seems to be happening, here.