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Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

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Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#21

Post by MichaelGG »

napoleond wrote: post #10
nemo1618 wrote: post #7

It worries me to see people describe Bitcoin as the "IP layer of payments." I have serious doubts about Bitcoin's ability to scale to a global audience. Transactions are too slow, the blockchain is too heavy, etc. I see Bitcoin in a very similar light to IPv4 and JavaScript: a good idea that escaped into the wild too quickly. And so we wind up piling hacks upon hacks to make up for the lack of a solid foundation, and…

Are there counter-examples of enormous, open platforms that escaped into the wild at just the right time? Because sure, IPv4 and JS have their problems, but it is impossible for me to conceive of an alternate universe where they were perfect at launch.

Really? Instead of JavaScript, essentially any other language could have been shipped and done a better job.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#22

Post by ahtomski »

This post does a very good job of explaining clearly why Bitcoin could be huge in a way that someone not familiar or excited by the technology could understand. And I think the meta-point here from Stripe is, by the way 'we want to be the next Visa'.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#24

Post by flavor8 »

It's not quite as simple as that, though. To, for example, send money from the US to Kenya via bitcoin, you need somebody in the US who is willing to sell you their bitcoin in exchange for dollars, and somebody in Kenya who is willing to buy your bitcoin in return for shillings (which are then paid to the destination seller). Creating the technology that makes this relatively transparent is quite doable, but you still need an active bitcoin market in both financial markets. If the general pattern of value transfer is unidirectional (e.g. remittances) then there needs to be a viable flow of bitcoin out of the destination country (i.e. your Kenyan bitcoin purchaser needs to regularly make purchases from foreign markets in bitcoin); that's tricky to establish.

On top of this issue, big banks charge only cents to send large amounts of cash internationally (according to somebody I talked to a couple months ago, Citi charges 10c per international ACH transaction assuming you have $250k on deposit) so the volume in the bitcoin market has to be built from small transactions -- there's no real upside to doing large transactions over bitcoin vs international ACH.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#25

Post by _puk »

dcc1 wrote: post #8

I am not sure why anyone would want to accept Bitcoin via Stripe Same can be accomplished with Bitpay, who take 0% in fees with a 30$/month package (1% otherwise), they also pay into the bank the next business day unlike Stripe. And they are also alot more open as to the types of businesses they accept. Or hell one could directly accept bitcoin with bitcoind running locally or using the blockchain.info api and then c…

Bitpay, bitcoind et al may technically be better offerings, but if you're already using Stripe to take card payments then woohoo, you can now take Bitcoin.

If Bitcoin wants to play with the big boys then the likes of Stripe getting on board are nothing but positive.

Having to have a separate system to handle Bitcoin vs Visa, MasterCard etc just seems archaic.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#26

Post by tomasien »

One thing I'm glad they didn't focus much on is the fees associated with Bitcoin. Too much is made out of the fee reduction of BTC (I think because it's easy for regular folks to understand) - but that's only a major factor for why you're able to develop on top of it. Bitcoin is SO much more than fees, and really the fees themselves aren't "set in stone" - others will charge on top of BTC anyway, so we have no idea what the fees will be eventually. Coinbase charges 1% for interchange, which seems reasonable, and that's just the start.

The card "network" itself wouldn't have to have the fees it has, it's Visa and Mastercard, the banks, and especially Amex that DECIDE to make the fees higher. Another example is ACH, which is essentially free to transact, and in some countries has wide adoption.

Fees should NOT be a major driver in BTC adoption for consumers or businesses. If you want low fees, let's work on ACH (and we are). But Bitcoin has a TON of other benefits, and those are phenomenally well documented here.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#27

Post by justinpaulson »

dcc1 wrote: post #8

I am not sure why anyone would want to accept Bitcoin via Stripe Same can be accomplished with Bitpay, who take 0% in fees with a 30$/month package (1% otherwise), they also pay into the bank the next business day unlike Stripe. And they are also alot more open as to the types of businesses they accept. Or hell one could directly accept bitcoin with bitcoind running locally or using the blockchain.info api and then c…

You are getting down-voted because you miss the point of stripe. Sure, there are arguably better methods to accept bitcoins, but Stripe is a service that does bitcoin AND other payment methods in one single solution.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#28

Post by chadkruse »

nlh wrote: post #5

This is one of the best posts on the "state of the Bitcoin economy" I've read yet. They nail a few key points that shows they get it in a real-world sense. * Mass-consumer adoption of Bitcoin is a tough sell in developed countries (USA, etc.) * Bitcoin the Network may ultimately be more valuable than BTC the currency * "No chargebacks!" is a pitch to merchants for BTC, not consumers. Consumers like chargebacks & trus…

> This says to me that Stripe's position is ultimately to be...the SWIFT of Bitcoin.

Agreed. To illustrate how broken the SWIFT system is for those unfamiliar with international wires: Last week I wired AUS$2,500 from an account I control in Australia to an account I control in the US. It touched 4(!) banks in the process, who collectively took ~$45 in fees ($25 of that being a total surprise to me, represented only by a small asterisk footnote in the fee schedule of my initiating Australian bank).

I became a huge Bitcoin cheerleader following the experience.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#29

Post by benmanns »

flavor8 wrote: post #24

It's not quite as simple as that, though. To, for example, send money from the US to Kenya via bitcoin, you need somebody in the US who is willing to sell you their bitcoin in exchange for dollars, and somebody in Kenya who is willing to buy your bitcoin in return for shillings (which are then paid to the destination seller). Creating the technology that makes this relatively transparent is quite doable, but you stil…

If the difference between USD - BTC - KES vs KES - USD gets too large, there will be an opportunity for someone to arbitrage.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#30

Post by jarin »

Taking this a step further, when using it as a pure transport medium, the cryptocurrency itself doesn't matter. It could be Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin, 2304293f20983uf2089j2f3coin, or whatever, as long as it's liquid enough to convert back and forth.

What we really need is a gateway system that will intelligently convert between your local currency -> the cryptocurrency with the best liquidity/exchange rate -> the destination currency.

Interestingly, I could see this leading to automatically generated cryptocurrencies, as various popular cryptocurrencies fall below liquidity, transaction time, and/or exchange rate thresholds. Over time, I'd expect to see some interesting competition and arbitrage between cryptocurrencies going on behind the scenes, all computer controlled.

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