Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel • Hacker News Board

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#11

Post by science4sail » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 6:07 AM UTC

sho wrote: post #7

An excellent demonstration of how, sometimes, erroneous but entrenched beliefs take decades, generations, to overturn. Next up in the list of stubborn myths people grew up with and find hard to set down: obesity is caused by excessive caloric intake.

Obesity is usually caused by excessive caloric intake of some sort; the energy used to generate the additional fat tissue has to come from somewhere.

Of course, the definition of excessive probably varies from person to person based on many factors...

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#12

Post by jstevens85 » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 7:12 AM UTC

sho wrote: post #7

An excellent demonstration of how, sometimes, erroneous but entrenched beliefs take decades, generations, to overturn. Next up in the list of stubborn myths people grew up with and find hard to set down: obesity is caused by excessive caloric intake.

Can you link to any academic papers that dispute that?

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#13

Post by jasonkester » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 7:56 AM UTC

sho wrote: post #9

tumult wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I can eat all the cheeseburgers I want now? Totally ready to start, just give me the thumbs up.

Sure you can. But you can't have the buns, fries, or non-diet drink ..

Atkins? Seriously? 5 years later?

In theory, sure, we're with you. But in practice, Atkins is a diet for fat people. If you're 250 pounds and you want to get down to 230 and stay there, Atkins is your huckleberry. We all know plenty of fat people who are noticeably less fat thanks to low-carb diets, but I can't think of anybody I know who used to be fat and is now thin because of one.

If you're 250 pounds and you want to get down to 170 and stay there, it seems that "eat less and exercise" is still your best bet.

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#14

Post by DougBTX » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 12:10 PM UTC

jimfl wrote: post #2

Wow. This goes against everything I've ever been taught about how to manage your muscles during endurance activities (In my case hiking, cycling, and Nordic skiing), yet, jibes with my experience. And here I thought there was something seriously wrong with me.

Eh, he does say at the end that despite not knowing the mechanism, coaches still managed to get the best performance just by looking at outcomes. There are no new exercise tips in the article.

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#15

Post by pradocchia » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 12:27 PM UTC

science4sail wrote: post #11

sho wrote: post #7

An excellent demonstration of how, sometimes, erroneous but entrenched beliefs take decades, generations, to overturn. Next up in the list of stubborn myths people grew up with and find hard to set down: obesity is caused by excessive caloric intake.

Obesity is usually caused by excessive caloric intake of some sort; the energy used to generate the additional fat tissue has to come from somewhere. Of course, the definition of excessive probably varies from person to person based on many factors...

In his defense, the composition of those calories by macronutrient, along with fiber and micronutrients, probably has a lot to do with how the body processes them. Popular and dare I say scientific understanding of the subject does seem rather simplistic.

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#16

Post by Aevin1387 » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 12:39 PM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #13

sho wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure you can. But you can't have the buns, fries, or non-diet drink ..

Atkins? Seriously? 5 years later? In theory, sure, we're with you. But in practice, Atkins is a diet for fat people. If you're 250 pounds and you want to get down to 230 and stay there, Atkins is your huckleberry. We all know plenty of fat people who are noticeably less fat thanks to low-carb diets, but I can't think of anybody I know who used to be fat and is now thin because of one. If you're 250 pounds and you wan…

See Jimmy Moore: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?page_id=2464 and there are a lot more examples. Myself, I have gone down from 290 pounds to 225 low-carbing, and I am still losing weight.

Also, Atkins is just one type of low-carb diet, and a rather strict one at that. It is because of how strict it is that people tend to fail a little ways in

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#17

Post by pbhjpbhj » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 1:08 PM UTC

Aevin1387 wrote: post #16

jasonkester wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atkins? Seriously? 5 years later? In theory, sure, we're with you. But in practice, Atkins is a diet for fat people. If you're 250 pounds and you want to get down to 230 and stay there, Atkins is your huckleberry. We all know plenty of fat people who are noticeably less fat thanks to low-carb diets, but I can't think of anybody I know who used to be fat and is now thin because of one. If you're 250 pounds and you wan…

See Jimmy Moore: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?page_id=2464 and there are a lot more examples. Myself, I have gone down from 290 pounds to 225 low-carbing, and I am still losing weight. Also, Atkins is just one type of low-carb diet, and a rather strict one at that. It is because of how strict it is that people tend to fail a little ways in

Isn't low-carb just a mechnism for creating a low-calorie diet though?

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#18

Post by mhb » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 2:04 PM UTC

jimfl wrote: post #2

Wow. This goes against everything I've ever been taught about how to manage your muscles during endurance activities (In my case hiking, cycling, and Nordic skiing), yet, jibes with my experience. And here I thought there was something seriously wrong with me.

What will you do differently after reading this?

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#19

Post by ahoyhere » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 3:29 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #17

Aevin1387 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See Jimmy Moore: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?page_id=2464 and there are a lot more examples. Myself, I have gone down from 290 pounds to 225 low-carbing, and I am still losing weight. Also, Atkins is just one type of low-carb diet, and a rather strict one at that. It is because of how strict it is that people tend to fail a little ways in

Isn't low-carb just a mechnism for creating a low-calorie diet though?

No, it's not. Low calorie diets don't tend to create ketosis and if you start eating too few calories on Atkins, you will stop losing weight. (I speak from experience. Had to make myself eat more. Funny, huh?)

Re: Lactic Acid Is Not Muscles' Foe, It's Fuel

#20

Post by ahoyhere » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 3:34 PM UTC

jstevens85 wrote: post #12

sho wrote: post #7

An excellent demonstration of how, sometimes, erroneous but entrenched beliefs take decades, generations, to overturn. Next up in the list of stubborn myths people grew up with and find hard to set down: obesity is caused by excessive caloric intake.

Can you link to any academic papers that dispute that?

a) known fact: insulin spikes cause more calories to be converted to fat, even when the same amounts of calories are consumed

b) even diet soda can cause insulin spikes, causing rats and calves to gain more weight on the same # of calories as rats/calves not consuming diet soda

There are links off the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_soda

There have also been lots of books written about the insulin response and weight gain, all citing studies, all pointing out that insulin resistance/syndrome x play roles in making some people fatter even if they do not overeat. Gary Taubes' is especially good.

I don't know why nerds seem to want to persist in believing that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, despite all the evidence.

In my mind, it's like a nasty twist on "tough love" -- people want to believe it because they want to believe that fat people are bad and weak, and therefore deserve what they get. By taking a hard line approach, they can feel... virtuous.

But the body is extremely complex, and a tightly-coupled system at that, with so many variables that it is vanishingly unlikely that we can categorically say that there is one simple, clear, clean fact that rules it all.