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No Russian

skibinsky.com

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Re: No Russian

#31

Post by acqq »

beachstartup wrote: post #5
acqq wrote: post #2

See however the previous extreme plane shootings, around 370 deaths total, by the US and Ukraine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 "shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988," "All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died" "The Fogarty report stated, "The data from USS Vincennes tapes, information from USS Sides and reliable intelligence infor…

also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902

These two are even older, from 1978 and 1983 respectively. Also note that the 007 was some 500 miles away and that 902 was a few thousands miles away from its regular path. Not so with 655, 812 or MH17.

Re: No Russian

#32

Post by spingsprong »

Can anyone seriously think of a reason why Ukraine, the Rebels or Russia would have downed that passenger plane on purpose?

Because I can't.

Whoever shot it down, obviously thought it was a military aircraft. They made a mistake.

If it's a mistake, it's not murder.

Re: No Russian

#33

Post by sigsergv »

He's trying to rationalize his personal hate of russians. I've heard a lot of such speeches from 1980-90 emigrants, usually they have no idea what's really going on here.

Re: No Russian

#35

Post by jbb555 »

quaunaut wrote: post #10
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #6

I honestly don't know how to feel about this. It's really just as deceptive in presenting a clear cut and linear case about the other side, as if geopolitics really are this straightforward, and not actually a cryptic clusterfuck. It's just as pandering as Russian propaganda, or any form of propaganda. That and, for what it's worth, I can see there being just as big of an incentive for Ukraine, as for Russia, to take…

The problem is, it wasn't intentional. They seem to have thought they were attacking a Ukrainian military plane. There wasn't any strategy in this.

So they murdered the wrong people?

Re: No Russian

#36

Post by egao1980 »

This is one of the typical rants by Russian immigrant who enjoyed top quality free education in USSR/Russia which made his success possible (+ no student loans), left during turmoil of 1990-2000s and still judging Russia on that bad memories basis. Article is full of clichés and gives general FOX news feel while reading. I lived in Moscow in 2011 and I'm part of that creative class he mentions and no one in my social network was supporting the protests. I doesn't mean that we are happy with all that happens - we just believe in slow and steady hard work towards better Russia and progress so far proves that it's working. Stop blaming Russia for everything - you're not USA State Department! :)

Re: No Russian

#37

Post by terranstyler »

I have quite a few problems with Western media stating that it's Putin's fault.

- There is a lack of motive (seriously why would he?)

- There is a lack of identity (if it were the Separatists, are they really controlled by Putin to that degree?)

- The murder weapon happens to also be in the hand of the Ukrainian army (19 systems, 3 of them stationed in the range of the crash site) [2]

- The Ukrainian air control obviously let the flight deviate quite a few kilometers of the "usual route" which goes south of Donetsk. [1]

- The lack of prosecution in the case of Maidan snipers (and evidence against the Ukrainian gov't as being behind it) and the Odessa fire.

I am not saying who it was or who it wasn't. I just state that I seriously doubt anyone who claims to know it right now.

[1] https://twitter.com/VagelisKarmiros/status/48992616773114265...

[2] http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-... 2nd paragraph

Re: No Russian

#38

Post by timurtamerlan »

Complete and total bullshit, based on US propaganda against Russia. I live in Russia and build my second IT business here. Most of my friends are entrepreneurs from Moscow and other cities.

Of course there is corruption, autocracy and alcoholism. It is there for several hundreds of years, and we have to deal with that. But situation is actually getting better with time. You can't change loves of millions of people in an instant.

Propaganda is an interesting point. In fact, I think it is not strong enough to counter the massive western information war against Russia. I read BBC and NY times regularly, and constantly notice biased and one-sided view.

I think that the author fall victim to the NY Times style propaganda articles about the evil Putin, connected it with his experience and decided to support it. I don'think it is a objective point of view and it does not describe reality.

Re: No Russian

#39

Post by gpvos »

> If Kiev government survives, it will fairly quickly unlock economic benefits of non-mafia, free economy.

...maybe. The rest of the Ukrainian political elite is also fairly corrupt, actually. So I expect it to take a decade at the very least. See, for example, Romania and Bulgaria.

Re: No Russian

#40

Post by gothy »

quaunaut wrote: post #10
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #6

I honestly don't know how to feel about this. It's really just as deceptive in presenting a clear cut and linear case about the other side, as if geopolitics really are this straightforward, and not actually a cryptic clusterfuck. It's just as pandering as Russian propaganda, or any form of propaganda. That and, for what it's worth, I can see there being just as big of an incentive for Ukraine, as for Russia, to take…

The problem is, it wasn't intentional. They seem to have thought they were attacking a Ukrainian military plane. There wasn't any strategy in this.

So hitting Ukrainian planes is OK? There wasn't any kind of terrorists that I'm aware of who got access to such a sophisticated weapons. And no one of those 'monkeys' could even handle with that 'BUK'. It's obvious that only trained army team could make this launch and it's obvious for us(Ukrainians here) that after brutal annexation of Crimea , this sick freak wont stop until he gets punched in the face. He doesn't understand any other language other that rude force. Ukraine is weak, much weaker that Russia now. Mostly because the very same Russia-oriented mafia clans. Former government of Ukraine is now hiding in Russia and they wont be judged there. Russia's mission number one was to prove that Ukraine is a failed-state. This is the main reason why all this happening. Max explains the rest in his post.
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