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The Problem With Founders

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Re: The Problem With Founders

#11
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your idea. I expect if they implemented it they would see that the article gets it wrong on a number of levels. Take any successful company, Google, Intel, Apple, Facebook, LinkedIn, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Boeing, any of them. Now compile a list of the first 10 - 100 employees. Now take the net worth for those individuals and compare it to the rest of the world. You'll find it lands north of the 99th percentile. Y…

The Valley has changed. If you started in the 1990s, you got real equity and housing costs were low. You could get into the low millions just by working hard and living frugally. It was a different time-- more egalitarian and far more engineer-driven. The question is: if you're 22-25 now and move into the Bay, do you have a good chance of ending up a made man (or woman)? The answer is "no". It's been overrun by MBA c…

The valley constantly changes.

Your question is identical to the one posed in 1999 during the first 'bubble' people saying "Oh but now it has gotten so inflated and ridiculous, someone moving here now doesn't stand a chance" and yet here we are in 2014 with a bunch of new LinkedIn, Google, Facebook, and other millionaires. In '84 when I moved here it was the 'great semiconductor dying' where places like Intel argued they were a good company because they were losing money less quickly than any other semiconductor company. Or had you been here in the 70's when cutbacks on defense work was the 'death knell' for the valley. What the observations miss is that the value is in the change not in the status quo.

If you move here as a 22 - 25 year old I think you continue to have a better chance of becoming financially independent than you would elsewhere. But its not a 'done deal', there is always luck, choices, and opportunities. Every time something fundamental changes, it creates a shift. In the last part of the 20th century it was the arrival of cheap computation, in the early 21st century the arrival of the Internet. Both created big shifts and opened up big opportunities to create value and wealth. They appear and vanish. I find it amusing that much of the money that went into my house came from Sun stock which, when I sold the last bit was worth very little, but during that time when it was valuable it became a part of my house. I see three candidates leading the next wave, adding autonomy to normally non-autonomous products (cars, trucks, lawn mowers), ubiquitous sensing to achieve better efficiencies in raw material usage (farming, manufacturing, housing, etc) and information economics (changing the way information is priced, bought, and sold). These are all emerging even as we're exploiting the tail end of social and Internet everywhere.

But here is the thing, if your 22, thing about being 'made' when you are 52, not when you are 25. And if you are suddenly "rich" at 25 think about how to make sure you are still rich enough when you're done working for others.

Re: The Problem With Founders

#12
post #4
post #3

I have to commend TC for writing an article like this, as they are largely the biggest vehicle for turning founders into Hollywood-esque stars and boasting founders as being disruptive (heck, their own conference is called Disrupt). The central principle of realizing that there are more people behind a startup and we should cherish them as well, is an absolutely awesome thought!! I just hope that the vision for how w…

I like your idea. I expect if they implemented it they would see that the article gets it wrong on a number of levels. Take any successful company, Google, Intel, Apple, Facebook, LinkedIn, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Boeing, any of them. Now compile a list of the first 10 - 100 employees. Now take the net worth for those individuals and compare it to the rest of the world. You'll find it lands north of the 99th percentile. Y…

Do founders get the 'fame' ? Sure, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Sometimes it makes you a target. I was amazed at how much Eric Schmidt paid for personal security (its in the 10Q) he can afford it of course but really? You have to hire ex-special forces types because you're too tempting a kidnapping target? I personally would much rather be anonymously wealthy than 'target on your back' wealthy.

Eric Schmidt almost surely doesn't _need_ ex special forces guys doing his security. He does it because it makes him feel/look important, or he's paranoid, or he may as well because he has the money and the company may pay for it anyway.

There are plenty of super-rich super-famous people in SV who don't have large security entourages and get by just fine.

Re: The Problem With Founders

#13
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your idea. I expect if they implemented it they would see that the article gets it wrong on a number of levels. Take any successful company, Google, Intel, Apple, Facebook, LinkedIn, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Boeing, any of them. Now compile a list of the first 10 - 100 employees. Now take the net worth for those individuals and compare it to the rest of the world. You'll find it lands north of the 99th percentile. Y…

I think you are correct about the big companies, but I didn't get the feeling that's who the author was addressing. They seemed to be addressing the new up and comers with founders who are stingy with equity and bad at sharing the limelight with their staff.

Big companies were small companies before they were big companies. It is important to understand that as they grow companies issue new stock, that new stock "dilutes" the existing stock, so lets say your a new company and you have Scrooge as you CEO who gets half, and you as the employee get 1/100th. Now while the company is growing and new investors are coming on board, typically new stock gets issued, they get new stock, the CEO's 1/2 becomes 2/5ths and you the employee who is doing great get another 'evergreen' option to keep you interested. So the CEOs percentage drops a lot faster than your percentage as an employee does. It may be that you're stays constant with new options while their falls. But none of that matters if the company is growing and growing. The stock splits two for one and you've got twice the number of shares. If the company is going to become big, you will always do well in a company that has been sharing equity from the start. The math makes it come out that way.

But it does only work if the company succeeds enough to either be acquired for the product or go public. Sometimes you can be acqui-hired and still get rich, there are number of folks who got into Facebook that way early on and have done well, but as always there is timing, luck, and quality. If you are in this valley to "get rich" then my experience is that you won't do as well as people who are here to "do great things." That was made really obvious to me when the company that acquired the company I helped get going hit an all time high, and some of the employees did nothing but hit 'refresh' on the NASDAQ page all day "Oh look another $100K, oh wait, -$50K, or good $200K, oh wait ..." They became completely non-functional as employees. The people who were there to get things done, didn't have that issue.

Re: The Problem With Founders

#14
We also need to shift our culture and empower our employees to build their own careers, networks, and ultimately, dreams. Companies should take the opportunity to encourage their engineers to give technical talks, release open-source code libraries, and receive external credit for the work that they are doing.

I get the sense from this article that every startup can be reduced to a lot of engineers chained to benches with a founder (or cofounders) standing gloriously in the limelight, cracking the whip between press interviews and investor meetings at the Battery.

One thought is that the founding team at a startup is likely to be entrepreneurial and initiative-taking enough to seek out these opportunities for themselves, should they want them; though I appreciate the nod to startups who remain in 'stealth' mode indefinitely, leaving a puzzling blur on someone's resume.

Another, that I definitely see folks out and about from startups who are not the founding team, but then I go to technical events and read technical publications, neither of which tend to fawn over the CEO to the exclusion of all else. Should we glorify the Rails developer who built a CRUD app over the CEO who found the money to pay the team, test the app in the market, and ultimately grow the business? No, we should reward ingenuity regardless of the title of the person behind it. But HN does a pretty good job of that, and at its core I think this article is just an argument against shallow tech journalists who prefer a tidy story about college roommates over a messy bunch of talented folks who did great work.

Re: The Problem With Founders

#15
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your idea. I expect if they implemented it they would see that the article gets it wrong on a number of levels. Take any successful company, Google, Intel, Apple, Facebook, LinkedIn, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Boeing, any of them. Now compile a list of the first 10 - 100 employees. Now take the net worth for those individuals and compare it to the rest of the world. You'll find it lands north of the 99th percentile. Y…

The Valley has changed. If you started in the 1990s, you got real equity and housing costs were low. You could get into the low millions just by working hard and living frugally. It was a different time-- more egalitarian and far more engineer-driven. The question is: if you're 22-25 now and move into the Bay, do you have a good chance of ending up a made man (or woman)? The answer is "no". It's been overrun by MBA c…

Good chance compared to what? The only "scene" I know of that has a better chance of "making" someone than the Bay area startup scene is Wall Street, but the barriers to entry there are much, much higher.

Re: The Problem With Founders

#16
post #14

We also need to shift our culture and empower our employees to build their own careers, networks, and ultimately, dreams. Companies should take the opportunity to encourage their engineers to give technical talks, release open-source code libraries, and receive external credit for the work that they are doing. I get the sense from this article that every startup can be reduced to a lot of engineers chained to benches…

I get the sense from this article that every startup can be reduced to a lot of engineers chained to benches with a founder (or cofounders) standing gloriously in the limelight, cracking the whip between press interviews and investor meetings at the Battery.

Yes, that's the image the author wants you to take away. It doesn't make much sense though.

For starters, what on earth chains these engineers to their benches?

Startup engineers get weekly emails from recruiters and hiring managers at competitors (and often partners, which really stinks). The pay, perks, and work environments available to them are tremendous and only getting better. If they don't like where they're at, they can be in another job in a fortnight. And if that's no good, they can jump onto the next opportunity until they find a good fit.

For this reason as a founder that went through YC and took a startup from 0 to acquisition in 3 years, I never once felt like I had anything resembling leverage over the engineers in our company. Just the opposite, I spent a lot of time thinking about how to give them the best possible work experience because I knew if I didn't, someone else would.

Re: The Problem With Founders

#17
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your idea. I expect if they implemented it they would see that the article gets it wrong on a number of levels. Take any successful company, Google, Intel, Apple, Facebook, LinkedIn, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Boeing, any of them. Now compile a list of the first 10 - 100 employees. Now take the net worth for those individuals and compare it to the rest of the world. You'll find it lands north of the 99th percentile. Y…

Do founders get the 'fame' ? Sure, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Sometimes it makes you a target. I was amazed at how much Eric Schmidt paid for personal security (its in the 10Q) he can afford it of course but really? You have to hire ex-special forces types because you're too tempting a kidnapping target? I personally would much rather be anonymously wealthy than 'target on your back' wealthy. Eric Schmidt a…

Warren Buffet is worth ~6 times more than Eric Schmidt; I don't see him any sort of security escort near what Eric Schmidt has.

The line between need and want can be blurry.

Re: The Problem With Founders

#18
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your idea. I expect if they implemented it they would see that the article gets it wrong on a number of levels. Take any successful company, Google, Intel, Apple, Facebook, LinkedIn, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Boeing, any of them. Now compile a list of the first 10 - 100 employees. Now take the net worth for those individuals and compare it to the rest of the world. You'll find it lands north of the 99th percentile. Y…

Do founders get the 'fame' ? Sure, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Sometimes it makes you a target. I was amazed at how much Eric Schmidt paid for personal security (its in the 10Q) he can afford it of course but really? You have to hire ex-special forces types because you're too tempting a kidnapping target? I personally would much rather be anonymously wealthy than 'target on your back' wealthy. Eric Schmidt a…

Steve Jobs was a good example of what you're talking about. Ask people around Palo Alto and they will tell you stories about running into him in town. Like the time I was sitting out on the patio at La Strada, within arm's reach of the University Avenue sidewalk, and I looked over at the next table and there were Steve and his daughter having a quiet dinner just like anyone else. And no security forces in sight.

And then there is Chuck Geschke, who was kidnapped from the Adobe parking lot, blindfolded and held hostage for days in real fear of not only his own life but his family's:

http://www.losaltosonline.com/news/sections/news/215-news-br...

http://www.losaltosonline.com/news/sections/news/215-news-br...

http://www.losaltosonline.com/news/sections/news/215-news-br...

http://www.losaltosonline.com/news/sections/news/215-news-br...

(Four part series in the Los Altos Town Crier)

Re: The Problem With Founders

#19

So much nonsense in one article. If you think the "bar is so much lower" to becoming a founder then stop whining about being one of the forgotten early employees and get off your ass and start a company for the right reasons: finding a market opportunity and making money from it. If you can't or won't, then you can't expect the rewards. Early employees are important, and should be given credit and fair payment for th…

I think the article is complaining precisely because many people are doing that; they refuse to be one of the forgotten early employees and start their own company. As a result, you get a glut of startups, a massive shortage of engineers (particularly in the startup ecosystem), and a series-A crunch as many of these startups fail to gain traction.

The market may fix everything in the long run, but usually it does so through failure. The article seems like it's trying to get ahead of the curve and glorify being an early employee before it's popular.

(Side note: I'm currently trying my own thing, but I wonder how well economically I would do by offering to be an early employee for high [>10%] equity stakes. My guess is I would get - reluctantly - laughed out of the office, but that's okay, because I've got my own thing and am probably more well-funded with better tech skills than they are.)

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