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U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

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Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#51

Post by jakejake »

lgleason wrote: post #17

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

The part about being a commodity, wearing business casual and not working remote is something that I experienced early in my career. So my thoughts and fears of that time keep me motivated. All of us in tech right now are pretty lucky, but I suspect there are people in the industry that never experienced groveling for a job or having to toe the line. The idea of having to put on a tie or show up at exactly 9am is simply laughable! But, were the balance to change I have no doubt that is what we will all be doing. I've been enjoying the ride as much as anybody, but I'm sometimes surprised it's lasted even this long.

Though I don't really agree with keeping the ride going by blocking immigration. I'm just not ready to join up with the "they took our jobs" crowd, even though it my be in my own, selfish interest. It doesn't seem that having an artificial shortage of workers is ultimately a good thing.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#52

Post by aikah »

jahewson wrote: post #30
lgleason wrote: post #17

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

> There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Then there are not enough tech workers: supply and demand. > Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. Then there are not enough experts either, though you try to blame this on the companies: how cheeky of them to hire more knowledgable people!

> Then there are not enough tech workers: supply and demand.

No,artificial increase of supply through government intervention to drive down wages. It's a bit like "reverse protectionism",but at the expense of local workers. But hey i'm sure if you could own slaves you'd still be bragging about "supply and demand".

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#53

Post by jasonlotito »

cynicalkane wrote: post #41
crdoconnor wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a left-libertarian it always disappoints me to see this attitude. But political opinions have always been about incentives, always about expressing your position in an in-group, and it's amusing in a depressing sort of way to see how peoples' political philosophies switch when their interests are at stake. In particular, it seems to be common among hackers to be very libertarian except when they feel threatened i…

You're absolutely right--H1B workers do not have nearly enough rights. I don't really care for whatever else you have to say. Try speaking to me like a rational adult instead of telling me to "shut the fuck up". EDIT: I find it incredible that, judging by the downovtes, people seriously think I am obligated to respond to someone who has shown so little respect to me.

Now you are going to rightfully be down voted for insulting the rest of us by complaining about being down voted. Your comment as it stands now, should be down voted.

You aren't new to HN. You know this is wrong. Don't do it.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#54

Post by [deleted] »

lgleason wrote: post #17

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#55

Post by DINKDINK »

crdoconnor wrote: post #38
cynicalkane wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a left-libertarian it always disappoints me to see this attitude. But political opinions have always been about incentives, always about expressing your position in an in-group, and it's amusing in a depressing sort of way to see how peoples' political philosophies switch when their interests are at stake. In particular, it seems to be common among hackers to be very libertarian except when they feel threatened in…

>As a left-libertarian it always disappoints me to see this attitude. But political opinions have always been about incentives, always about expressing your position in an in-group, and it's amusing in a depressing sort of way to see how peoples' political philosophies switch when their interests are at stake. In particular, it seems to be common among hackers to be very libertarian except when they feel threatened i…

>H1-Bs are the very antithesis of freedom

Laws restrict freedom, that's their entire point. Whether a society, political ideology etc deems those limitations in freedom necessary is a different story. Visas put a wedge in the law to allow someone to work at a business. Global immigration laws prevent people/workers from moving freely to other areas of economic opportunity. By making immigration controls more restrictive (denying visa grants) you leave people with less opportunities and ergo freedom.

Should we create inter-state immigration controls? Should I need to apply to the state of New York to move there? By supporting immigration controls and denying H1-B visas you're in essence saying, yes I should have to apply to the state of New York to move there.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#56

Post by walshemj »

_delirium wrote: post #22
srameshc wrote: post #9

A large pool of H1B quota is being misused for sure. Instead of those mediocre or low tech workers, if more highly skilled workers are let in, I guess it would be better and we can manage with current allotted quotas.

I've long wondered why they don't allocate the slots (however many are politically palatable) via some kind of bidding system, e.g. highest-salary-filled-first, instead of the current first-come-first-served system. There is a "prevailing wage" requirement, intended to ensure that H1B is used to bring in workers where there's a shortage, not merely to undercut wages. But that's hard to police. And there is a more mar…

Maybe make H1B applicable only to direct hires no contracting via a third party body shop - also reduce a companys H1B allowance by the number of redundancy's in the previous year

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#57

Post by [deleted] »

_delirium wrote: post #22
srameshc wrote: post #9

A large pool of H1B quota is being misused for sure. Instead of those mediocre or low tech workers, if more highly skilled workers are let in, I guess it would be better and we can manage with current allotted quotas.

I've long wondered why they don't allocate the slots (however many are politically palatable) via some kind of bidding system, e.g. highest-salary-filled-first, instead of the current first-come-first-served system. There is a "prevailing wage" requirement, intended to ensure that H1B is used to bring in workers where there's a shortage, not merely to undercut wages. But that's hard to police. And there is a more mar…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#58

Post by winter_blue »

lgleason wrote: post #17

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

No one seems to realize how hard it is to immigrate to the United States. If you don't have a close relative (parent, sibling, or child) and are not fleeing persecution, it is quite incredibly hard to immigrate to the United States.

The pathway to a green card (permanent residency), for nearly everyone else (i.e. skilled immigrants) involves getting an H-1B or L-1 first, and then asking their employer to sponsor them for permanent residency.

So when I hear anti-H1B rants, what I'm hearing is hatred towards immigrants and immigration in general, that seem to be coming from people who have forgotten their own heritage.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#59

Post by toomuchtodo »

winter_blue wrote: post #58
lgleason wrote: post #17

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

No one seems to realize how hard it is to immigrate to the United States. If you don't have a close relative (parent, sibling, or child) and are not fleeing persecution, it is quite incredibly hard to immigrate to the United States . The pathway to a green card (permanent residency), for nearly everyone else (i.e. skilled immigrants) involves getting an H-1B or L-1 first, and then asking their employer to sponsor the…

> So when I hear anti-H1B rants, what I'm hearing is dirty filthy immigrant hatred coming from people who have forgotten their own heritage.

I don't think that's the case at all. I think its workers who have seen the job situation get progressively worse in the US over the last few decades, and are trying all avenues to prevent it from getting worse (in this case, depressed wages).

If workers had more protections (as it is in other developed/first world countries, for example), I don't think you'd see such a strong backlash against H-1B visas.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#60

Post by maxerickson »

winter_blue wrote: post #58
lgleason wrote: post #17

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

No one seems to realize how hard it is to immigrate to the United States. If you don't have a close relative (parent, sibling, or child) and are not fleeing persecution, it is quite incredibly hard to immigrate to the United States . The pathway to a green card (permanent residency), for nearly everyone else (i.e. skilled immigrants) involves getting an H-1B or L-1 first, and then asking their employer to sponsor the…

The H-1B is explicitly temporary. It might be a way to get your feet on the ground here, but it simply is not intended to be part of a path to citizenship.
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