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U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

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Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#21
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> He is a Republican Senator from Alabama. He doesn't need to look at facts. Let's be fair here. That should read: He is a Senator. He doesn't need to look at facts.

Actually, you can look at the fact that he historically doesn't vote for education bills, so that pretty much makes him a hypocrite. Can't blame a company for trying to hire the best trained people to do a given job.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#22
post #9

A large pool of H1B quota is being misused for sure. Instead of those mediocre or low tech workers, if more highly skilled workers are let in, I guess it would be better and we can manage with current allotted quotas.

I've long wondered why they don't allocate the slots (however many are politically palatable) via some kind of bidding system, e.g. highest-salary-filled-first, instead of the current first-come-first-served system. There is a "prevailing wage" requirement, intended to ensure that H1B is used to bring in workers where there's a shortage, not merely to undercut wages. But that's hard to police. And there is a more market-oriented way of allocating the slots to where genuine shortages exist: look at revealed preferences in the form of how much companies are willing to pay for a worker. If a company is willing to offer $150k to an H1B worker, I'm willing to believe there is actually a shortage of that person's skills. If they're only willing to offer $60k, I'm less convinced this offer is filling a skill that suffers from a major national shortage.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#23

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

As a left-libertarian it always disappoints me to see this attitude. But political opinions have always been about incentives, always about expressing your position in an in-group, and it's amusing in a depressing sort of way to see how peoples' political philosophies switch when their interests are at stake. In particular, it seems to be common among hackers to be very libertarian except when they feel threatened in their jobs, then you hear them talk about unions and protectionism and regulation and so on.

I think it's very selfish to oppose H1B visas. America is wealthy compared to almost everywhere, and phenomenally wealthy compared to many of the places these H1B workers come from. Furthermore, the best thing for the US in the long run is to import as many smart people as it can. The best thing for us in the long run is to import as many smart people as we can. There are economists who dispute increasing immigration, but there is to my knowledge no serious argument against importing smart people.

Again, there is to my knowledge no economist, who anyone takes seriously, who would say "The USA needs to import fewer tech workers". It's a gain for everyone except the worker being "replaced", and that's a fallacy anyway because the economic pie is not zero-sum.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#25

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

Agree with the downward pressure point. Personally, i think its a good thing. American companies (including start-ups) now have a larger pool of talent to hire from without paying Wall street salaries. However, I disagree that H1Bs are somehow cheaper. I was paid the same wage as my American counter-parts when I was at AMZN.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#26

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

As a left-libertarian it always disappoints me to see this attitude. But political opinions have always been about incentives, always about expressing your position in an in-group, and it's amusing in a depressing sort of way to see how peoples' political philosophies switch when their interests are at stake. In particular, it seems to be common among hackers to be very libertarian except when they feel threatened in…

There are probably not a ton of people here who would disagree with the phrase "the USA needs more tech workers." There are probably quite a few who disagree with the phrase "the USA needs more tech workers at the expense of its current tech workers."

Do you see the difference? If MS, Google, Cisco et al want to import workers, they should be paying them the same amount as their American counterparts, rather than pulling them in to be temp workers and lay off higher cost employees.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#27
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is a Republican Senator from Alabama. He doesn't need to look at facts. Let's be fair here. That should read: He is a Senator. He doesn't need to look at facts.

Actually, you can look at the fact that he historically doesn't vote for education bills, so that pretty much makes him a hypocrite. Can't blame a company for trying to hire the best trained people to do a given job.

But I can blame companies for conspiring to hire the best trained people to do a given job at the lowest possible price. H-1B visas, offshoring, anti-compete clauses and non-poaching agreements are their key tactics.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#28
post #2

Along those lines, the census agency says most STEM graduates do not work in STEM fields: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/07/10/cens...

Anyone who is smart enough to calculate the differential of equations is smart enough to see there's little money in those jobs.

You see this in practice. STEM graduates do 3 things, in my experience. Work in management, work in IT, and work in academia. I wouldn't count on any of having up-to-date science knowledge except the academic ones.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#29

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

As a left-libertarian it always disappoints me to see this attitude. But political opinions have always been about incentives, always about expressing your position in an in-group, and it's amusing in a depressing sort of way to see how peoples' political philosophies switch when their interests are at stake. In particular, it seems to be common among hackers to be very libertarian except when they feel threatened in…

It's not depressing to see people's political attitudes change with more experience and in response to life experience and new realities. It's actually quite refreshing. You should be far more worried about the opposite, someone who uses ideology as a mental shortcut.

> In particular, it seems to be common among hackers to be very libertarian except when they feel threatened in their jobs, then you hear them talk about unions and protectionism and regulation and so on.

It seems you are in favor of open borders and ascribing extremist views--non-sovereignty of nation-states--to those who simply might not toe the liberal party line.

> Again, there is to my knowledge no economist, who anyone takes seriously, who would say "The USA needs to import fewer tech workers".

Since when did economists have tech worker interests in mind? All bow down at the altar of GDP, everyone else can burn.

Re: U.S. Senator blasts Microsoft's H-1B push as it lays off 18,000 workers

#30

Raising the H1B cap has everything to do with creating downward pressure on wages. There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones. Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly. If you are in tech in the US and don't mind making less money for what you do keep supporting legislation for more H1B's. Just don't complain when you beco…

> There are plenty of tech workers, but not enough cheap ones.

Then there are not enough tech workers: supply and demand.

> Lots of companies also want experts in specific technologies instead of getting a good generalist who can learn quickly.

Then there are not enough experts either, though you try to blame this on the companies: how cheeky of them to hire more knowledgable people!

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