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Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

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Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#101
For some entertaining looks at this. You might want to watch a season or two of house hunters international. It's not real in-depth, but seeing what living conditions look like in many places, and what they cost, can be very helpful.

I've learned from that show that Paris proper and most of London are absolutely off of my list of places to live.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#102

Part of this is your definition of "expat". For me "expat" = person who gets sent by company and set up by that company in a foreign country. Most of those types get a sweet deal. The company pays their rent and usually tries to give them something close to what they'd have in their native country which could easily cost way more than they could afford on their own. Plus, since the company is paying it means an insta…

Wikipedia: "An expatriate (sometimes shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of the person's upbringing." Wiktionary: 1. One who lives outside one’s own country. 2. One who has been banished from one’s own country. In other words, your personal definition is more restrictive than the dictionary, and continuing to use it might result in some confusion.

greggman's usage is pretty common.

e.g. wikipedia: "In common usage, the term is often used in the context of professionals or skilled workers sent abroad by their companies,[1] rather than for all 'immigrants' or 'migrant workers'."

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#103

Part of this is your definition of "expat". For me "expat" = person who gets sent by company and set up by that company in a foreign country. Most of those types get a sweet deal. The company pays their rent and usually tries to give them something close to what they'd have in their native country which could easily cost way more than they could afford on their own. Plus, since the company is paying it means an insta…

Wikipedia: "An expatriate (sometimes shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of the person's upbringing." Wiktionary: 1. One who lives outside one’s own country. 2. One who has been banished from one’s own country. In other words, your personal definition is more restrictive than the dictionary, and continuing to use it might result in some confusion.

greggman's usage is pretty common.

e.g. wikipedia: "In common usage, the term is often used in the context of professionals or skilled workers sent abroad by their companies,[1] rather than for all 'immigrants' or 'migrant workers'."

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#104

Part of this is your definition of "expat". For me "expat" = person who gets sent by company and set up by that company in a foreign country. Most of those types get a sweet deal. The company pays their rent and usually tries to give them something close to what they'd have in their native country which could easily cost way more than they could afford on their own. Plus, since the company is paying it means an insta…

Wikipedia: "An expatriate (sometimes shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of the person's upbringing." Wiktionary: 1. One who lives outside one’s own country. 2. One who has been banished from one’s own country. In other words, your personal definition is more restrictive than the dictionary, and continuing to use it might result in some confusion.

As someone who's live abroad for 8+ years I can assure you there are two vastly different cultures. One of expats as I defined them above and other as people living abroad of their own accord.

If you mistake one for the other you're going to have a bad time. If someone from the group I mentioned above tells you living abroad is awesome but you then choose to move on your own you're going to have a vastly different experience.

One generally lives a carefree life. They are catered too. The bring family, put their kids in private schools, eat at the most expensive restaurants, live in large apartments, often have cars even if that's not common in their place of residence. And generally make 6 figure US$ salaries.

The other, in my experience, generally make less than US $50k, live in small inexpensive apartments, and have all the struggles that come with a lower income.

I'm not saying one is better or worse only they are different worlds and just pointing out it would be good to know up front which of those worlds you're moving abroad into.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#105
post #9

You are asking a lot of questions but it would help people to understand what you are looking for (or what you are moving away from). If you are looking for almost USA that is not USA, then Canada. If you are looking for a good climate outside of USA then Australia. Or France, or Italy, but then you will need to learn the language. If you are looking for low expenses, then India, Thailand, or Vietnam. If you are look…

I want to experience another culture and I want my family to have a similar experience. Since I have really no idea what I'd be in for, I was looking for input on what others experienced. I haven't traveled much outside of the US but am really, really attracted to Europe. I work remotely currently so stable/fast internet is pretty much my only requirement and the country has to be expat friendly.

So, to recap: different culture, expat friendly, stable internet, and (I presume) safety for the family. There is a continuum with countries similar to US culture on one end and countries with very different culture on another end, but with various issues (safety, internet availability, language, etc). I would say somewhere in the middle of the spectrum are countries of Eastern Europe: they are beautiful, most of them are expat-friendly and have expat diasporas, stable internet, relatively safe. I would suggest you look at Czech Republic, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania (great internet connectivity BTW).

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised to see Thailand on a list of cheap places to live. I live in Bangkok in the CBD just behind the Four Seasons. While that's admittedly one of the pricier neighborhoods to live in, I've also lived in some of the "artier" lower cost neighborhoods here. Overall, this is what I've found, compared to my place of origin: 1. Rent -- 0.5 - 1.0 what you'll pay in a top-tier US city. 2. Groceries -- anythin…

Thailand is very cheap to live, if you don't try to live a life exactly like you lived in your western home country. I moved from Australia with my girlfriend (now wife) about 20 months ago. 1. I don’t live in Bangkok (about 75km north in Ayutthaya, the old capital), but outside the city in the other cities/large towns (excluding perhaps Pattaya and Phuket CBD which cater to (sex) tourists), renting and buying a 3+ b…

The issue with many expat is they want what they get at home without embracing local culture. Stay home I say.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#107
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised to see Thailand on a list of cheap places to live. I live in Bangkok in the CBD just behind the Four Seasons. While that's admittedly one of the pricier neighborhoods to live in, I've also lived in some of the "artier" lower cost neighborhoods here. Overall, this is what I've found, compared to my place of origin: 1. Rent -- 0.5 - 1.0 what you'll pay in a top-tier US city. 2. Groceries -- anythin…

I lived in a really nice serviced apartment in downtown chiang mai for USD$500/mo. I think over the year and a half I was there I only spent about $25,000. I live in the caribbean now and spend that much in six months.

Interesting... Belize, eh? Is the internet reliable/fast? Can you fly in and out without going via the US? Do you live in Belize City or someplace else? How'd you wind up there?

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#108

I've lived in Both Australia and Canada (I'm American) with my family for significant amounts of time (currently in Canada). Both are great with very little "differences" from the US. However, there are some major annoyances in both places as well. We Americans have come to expect things to be A. cheap B. quick and C. easy. See amazon.com. Those either don't exist or are 1/100 as useful outside of the US. Other thing…

You find the weather in Canada nicer than Phoenix?

I'm thinking that might only apply 5 months out the year. But I'm not a cold weather person.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#109
Check out New Zealand. It's clean, safe, environmentally secure, relatively educated and great for families, and if you hang about awhile they practically throw citizenship at you. Rent is expensive, tax is high, and income low... but coming from the US you'll like the relaxed lifestyle and plethora of holidays. When the kids grow up they can always hop the water to Australia and/or onward to Asia for some more excitement.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#110
I moved to Asunción, Paraguay 6 years ago, after having been here twice for language-learning-vacations. It took about 3,5 month to feel fluent but I will learn more language and culture all my life. I came from central Europe and enjoy the warmer weather and the relaxed live style. I put all my stuff in a container and paid about 7.000 USD to including all the packing which I never could have done that well myself, I also could live back home normally until 2 days before I moved. One monitor crashed on the way but the insurance payed for it. I live in a nice apartment of about 2.000 square feet with 24 hours guards, janitor and gardener for 1.000 USD/month.

Good education is expensive here. I meet later today with some US embassy workers and will ask what they pay for their kids.

I want to stay here and planning a marriage, it is really difficult to get a Paraguayan girl to live far from family for a long time. People here are extremely family oriented.

I thought it would be easy to find a job here as a Java/Groovy/Smalltalk/C++ developer, but it was not. You can find work here if you are into M$ technologies or maybe PHP. You will work many hours on boring projects and get paid almost nothing. If you work with a cooler tech stack there is no market here. Since I am here I have learned Scala, object oriented databases, search engines like Lucene and Elasticsearch, node.js and Meteor. All of that is not in use in the country. Finding remote work has never worked for me and only once I found a project for two month in Berlin. A friend who a Java developer is still employed by a German company and moved to rural Paraguay, he is married here and plans to become old here.

Living costs easily doubled since I am here. The quality of life is higher in some areas and lower in others, it always comes down to the compromises one is willing to make.

Last week I helped a guy from Tennessee to get his residency. A friend met him on a flight from Miami to Sãu Paulo, he wanted to get a second passport as an insurance to the limitations on civil rights going on in the US. We ran around for 4 days to get all the papers and seals the government asks for and now he has to wait for 90 days to get his permanent residency. After that he still has to apply for an ID card which will probably take another month.

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