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Tell HN: Take vacation

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Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#101

Post by fataliss »

ritchiea wrote: post #95
hipsterrific wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My previous job had unlimited PTO and that team sucked mega-donkey balls. It worked despite the culture, here's how: - large vacation time was scheduled around projects. The SPM gave large priority to devs over the business. Thus priorities were reduced to meet resources for that sprint (SCRUM). - We had a flexible work schedule so if you needed to be home because the guy fixing your water heater is coming at 3, we m…

I don't think most companies in the US give 4 weeks PTO. Currently I am contracting but at my last full time gig standard was 1 week, I pushed at hire time and got 2. What are other people's experience with this?

I think the US standard is more around 15 days of PTO. That's what I get here. Plus the week between Christmas and New year that is for everybody.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#102

Post by rsynnott »

maccard wrote: post #52
rsynnott wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I mean, Dublin's very expensive, but it's not as expensive as San Francisco, say.

You sure about that? A quick glance at http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun... tells me that there is a difference in rent, (I know it's not accurate) but I know that the rent in Dublin has increased from that figure. Most people I know are now paying 1400-1600 USD for 2bed apartments, so I guess SF could have changed too.

> but I know that the rent in Dublin has increased from that figure

1270USD is about 950 euro; at a pinch, you can still get a city centre 1 bed for that, though a bit over 1000 would be more common. I'm also a bit suspicious of its restaurant costs; they seem high for Dublin, and its telecoms costs, while reasonable a few years ago, are now too high.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#103

Post by logfromblammo »

ritchiea wrote: post #95
hipsterrific wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My previous job had unlimited PTO and that team sucked mega-donkey balls. It worked despite the culture, here's how: - large vacation time was scheduled around projects. The SPM gave large priority to devs over the business. Thus priorities were reduced to meet resources for that sprint (SCRUM). - We had a flexible work schedule so if you needed to be home because the guy fixing your water heater is coming at 3, we m…

I don't think most companies in the US give 4 weeks PTO. Currently I am contracting but at my last full time gig standard was 1 week, I pushed at hire time and got 2. What are other people's experience with this?

When I started at this place, I had 10 days of vacation and about 8 sick days per year. Within the first 3 months, I had no more vacation, no more sick days, and just 15 days of PTO. Note the mathematical inequality. We were, of course, then required to use PTO days when the office was shuttered due to dangerous weather, and everyone got the flu because no one wanted to scuttle their own summer vacation plans by staying home sick in February.

My experience is that American companies hate the idea that their employees might prefer to do anything at all other than to make more money for the company than it costs to pay out their benefits and wages. This is not a theoretical hate, but an actual, almost tangible hate. They are completely furious that their inefficient meat-robots continually whine about needing to eat, sleep, and eliminate wastes. Never mind wanting to actually leave the workplace.

US companies emphatically do not offer 4 weeks PTO to new hires. You would be lucky to get that after 5 years of continuous employment with the same company. Your mileage, of course, may vary, especially if you are in a particularly labor-friendly job market. My personal experience, however, is that I have never been able to take a vacation longer than 9 continuous days, and those were often constrained by weekends and paid holidays, resulting in 4 days spent from PTO, and 5 days from weekends and holidays.

I would be willing to put up with some of the negative aspects of having a union, if it could manage even as much as stopping my non-paycheck benefits from eroding a tiny bit every year. I have had enough.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#104

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

joedrew wrote: post #79
nicolethenerd wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly curious, what is the alternative to PTO? I don't see why this is such a bad thing - you get X days off, you can use them for whatever reason you want - sick or vacation - as long as X is a reasonable number, what's the issue here?

Having people's sick days deduct from their vacation is an incentive to go to work when you're sick, jeopardizing the health (and productivity) of the team. A much better solution is vacation days and unlimited sick days, as well as generous work-from-home opportunities for days when you're under the weather but not too sick to work.

The supposition here is that it's very unfair to impose a professional cost on getting sick. I don't see it that way. I see people getting sick because they take lousy care of themselves. They're fat and eat lousy food. Also, they make various idiotic stressful choices like having a 1hr commute, or putting a kid in some germ infested day care.

People who do not make such choices rarely get sick for more than the odd few of days a year. Why should they subsidize poor choices? Not being sick a lot is a reasonable and sensible professional expectation.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#106

Post by ivanhoe »

I think it's not the vacation itself, but the change of the environment what makes the re-energizing effect. If you feel burned out and can't afford a real vacation, just try changing a thing or two about your life routine every week... even small changes can be really refreshing.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#107

Post by zrail »

delecti wrote: post #100
erikw wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Required vacation time is a security best practice, especially for anyone handling money. This makes it more difficult to perpetrate fraud. It also prevents institutional knowledge from being trapped with individuals, as at least one other person must know how to perform the role of the vacationee.

Can you explain how it makes it more difficult to perpetuate fraud? I've never worked handling money, so I can't picture how that would be the case.

Say you're a bank employee who handles money. It'd be pretty easy to just slip some off the top of each stack every day and take it home. Or arrange the software to skim some into a separate account and pull that money out often enough that the balance never gets high enough to be suspicious.

Both of those things, plus many more, require daily or weekly effort. If you're out of the office, something will go amiss and you'll get caught.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#108

Post by rsynnott »

maccard wrote: post #49
CalRobert wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct, it's Ireland. As far as visa restrictions go it seems to be somewhere between extremely difficult UK and relatively simple Germany. Cost is all relative, I guess. Pay is lower than SF, but I also am paying less than half of what I would for my apartment. Given that I was spending a lot of money to take what vacation I could in Europe anyway I actually save a good deal on vacation budget this way too.…

> but I also am paying less than half of what I would for my apartment. Out of curiosity (I understand if you don't want to say) but roughly how much are you paying for your apartment, and how close to the city is it? I'm paying almost 1500 USD for my 2bed apt not far from the city centre, and the landlord is increasing the rent in September (I'm leaving anyway). The saving of ~500 dollars per month I would imagine d…

In San Francisco, a _1 bed_ apartment would often be over $2000.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#109

Post by alasdair_ »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #104
joedrew wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having people's sick days deduct from their vacation is an incentive to go to work when you're sick, jeopardizing the health (and productivity) of the team. A much better solution is vacation days and unlimited sick days, as well as generous work-from-home opportunities for days when you're under the weather but not too sick to work.

The supposition here is that it's very unfair to impose a professional cost on getting sick. I don't see it that way. I see people getting sick because they take lousy care of themselves. They're fat and eat lousy food. Also, they make various idiotic stressful choices like having a 1hr commute, or putting a kid in some germ infested day care. People who do not make such choices rarely get sick for more than the odd…

You are encouraging those sick people you seem to have a lot of disdain for to come in to the office when they have diseases and spread them to you.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#110

Post by Spooky23 »

skizm wrote: post #39

Whenever I take vacation all I think about is how many days left till I have to go back to work. Vacations are like one big countdown clock looming over me. I'm honestly less stressed at work I think.

You're stressed out.

Take two weeks. You'll be amazed how much better you feel week 2.

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