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Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

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Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#51

Living in another country is way, way different from going on a vacation in another country. You're removed from the tourist infrastructure that caters to foreigners and you've got to deal with all of the country's bureaucratic procedures and regulations (even simple things like renting an apartment vary ridiculously from country to country). The same places that are fascinating and fun for foreigners to visit are of…

"Living in another country is way, way different from going on a vacation in another country"

Can't emphasize this enough. If you love traveling, emigrating somewhere may not be a great idea. Moved to the US from the UK a few years ago, and when I get vacation time I tend to use it to go back to visit friends and family.

That said, I made the move with a wife and child in tow, so it can be done - but obviously needs considerable thought and a strong partnership to make it work.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#52

In case you're unaware, there's also r/IWantOut on Reddit, which is all about this kind of stuff. I'm 'out' (currently Lisbon, previously both Rio long-term and short-term in Medellin) but since I've always tried to get away from native English speakers, in order to have a more 'authentic' experience, I can't say what's good for Americans. Key to me has been language. Get at least intermediate in the one that's spoke…

I've had a couple of wonderful experiences vacationing in the Algarve. What's it like to actually live in Portugal? I'm a Canadian, with a combined admiration and disdain for U.S. society. Actually, that was redundant :). Also, I have dual-Canadian German citizenship and am running a largely telework-friendly business.

I have yet to make it down to the Algarve but people I know have gone and loved it (though some have said it's largely British, even when getting something from the local market where the owner-counter person is a Brit).

Living in Portugal is great, in my opinion. Being low-cost really helps, too. Lisbon is one of the prettiest/lovliest cities I've ever lived in (though it took me over 6 months to start to see it). And the short day-trips are well worth it (Arrábida+Cabo Espichel, Sintra, Cascais, etc). Renting a 1-bdrm in the city center is US$500/mo so it's hard to complain. Porto is awesome, too, and cheaper than Lisbon.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#53
Canada and England are easy-mode for an American expat, in my experience. In addition to language, there are plenty of US firms already doing business there.

The easiest way to be an expat, by far, is to work for an American company who then sends you to work overseas. Ideally, an American firm with a large number of overseas US workers and an established program for that -- or a government organization like the State Department, entities like USAID, etc.

It's probably easier (in terms of not needing to make any decisions) to work for a US oil company and live on a compound in Saudi Arabia than it is to find your own way in a more permissive country. But less fun, I'm sure.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#54

We have good friends that moved to Costa Rica a decade ago. The climate is nice, the scenery is amazing, the country is a stable democracy with no standing army. Land and housing was very affordable.

I lived in Costa Rica for 6 months a couple years ago, and it really is an amazing place. Land, housing, and physical labor are all super cheap there - most everything else is pretty similar to the US. The food for instance is about the same, it's just better.

I lived in Playa Avellanas, which was way off the beaten path, and I don't recommend that. It was cool learning Spanish to communicate with everyone but the logistics of living there soon became a nusiance (20-40 minute drive to the nearest place with an ATM, for example, and the ride costs about $50, the hospital being hours away).

I've heard it is kind of a pain in the ass to legally reside in CR as well - navigating the waters and finding 'lawyers' who won't just steal your money and run is kind of tricky.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#56
I recommend the Turks and Caicos Islands. English is the national language (though many people also speak creole), the currency is USD, there are no income taxes and you can get residency with a real estate investment of as little as $75k. It's also one of the most beautiful places to live in the world. Cost of living is comparable to the midwest (they do have 15% sales tax), and the internet is fast. Great place to do a tech startup.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#57
post #46

German expat in the UK reporting in. > What has your experience been? Mixed. Do your research first. It was difficult to get a bank account and rent a flat without references or fixed address (I stayed in a hostel the first few weeks). I once got evicted from a flat (with 10 days notice) because of a legal loophole. The landlord was insolvent, bank repossessed, my tenancy agreement was declared void because landlord…

Forgot to mention Internations, a social network for expats. You can sign up there and read the forums of your choice destination. There will typically be a thread with advice for interested immigrants, and helpful people to answer your questions.

http://www.internations.org/

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#58
> What has your experience been?

Great, I really like it here. Mostly because for the most of my careers I've been working next to highly educated people, so my perception is that the Dutch are much smarter than the English. Plus I'm usually not the smartest person in the room (thankfully!). None of that small-minded idiocy that I see at home.

The culture is great; they're direct like the Americans, commercial like us Brits and diplomatic like the Scandinavians. The directness suits me, and I can use my British politeness when needed too. More tools in the toolbox.

> What is your particular career?

Software Architect (the good kind, who can code) though I'm trying to start up for myself.

> What were your moving expenses?

About 10k EUR, moving was 1k but you need 5k for a cheap 2nd hand car and 1k for health insurance and other costs.

> How much is your rent or did you buy?

Buy, 1.2k EUR a month mortgage on a house in an average town.

> Where did you move to/from?

UK to Netherlands to be with my dutch girlfriend (now wife). That was 8 years ago.

> How are the schools?

Excellent, because they're split by capability (vocational, technical, university).

> Have you become fluent in the native language and was the language barrier difficult to overcome?

I'm fluent through a combination of not fearing saying something stupid and investing 3k EUR in courses at a local university.

> How long have you lived in this country? Are you a permanent resident or > do you plan on moving back to the US?

I want to bring my baby up here. Much better than the UK.

> What was the process like to become a permanent resident?

EU to EU is very easy.

> Did you have to already have a job when you moved to that country?

I had a low-level job arranged, found a better job within a month.

> What's the cost of living compared to where you moved from? Has your quality > of life improved or not? How and why?

Cost of living is much higher: the social system here is better, the taxes are higher and more progressive. My income is high enough that it means that I'm paying about 25% more tax. Plus in the UK I could probably earn more because I could easily switch to Sales.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#59

You are asking a lot of questions but it would help people to understand what you are looking for (or what you are moving away from). If you are looking for almost USA that is not USA, then Canada. If you are looking for a good climate outside of USA then Australia. Or France, or Italy, but then you will need to learn the language. If you are looking for low expenses, then India, Thailand, or Vietnam. If you are look…

I'm always surprised to see Thailand on a list of cheap places to live. I live in Bangkok in the CBD just behind the Four Seasons. While that's admittedly one of the pricier neighborhoods to live in, I've also lived in some of the "artier" lower cost neighborhoods here. Overall, this is what I've found, compared to my place of origin:

1. Rent -- 0.5 - 1.0 what you'll pay in a top-tier US city.

2. Groceries -- anything resembling what you'd get in the US will cost 1.25 - 2.00 of what you're paying in the US.

3. Cars -- 1.5 - 4.0 what you'll pay in the US. Insurance is somewhat cheaper however. Ditto maintenance. Gas is about the same.

4. Eating out -- really depends but say $30 - $200 for two people, possibly with drinks. You can eat cheaper food on the streets. You may or may not want to.

5. Electronics, watches, designer goods, etc -- significantly more than what you would pay in the US.

6. Domestic help -- if from a neighboring country very affordable, starting at $20 - $30 per day for maids and nannies.

7. Health care -- pretty incredible value here compared to the US. It would not be insane to go to a top-tier hospital without insurance here. My wife and I just had our son here. Excellent care for a fraction of US prices.

In other words, anything you might save on rent you'll make up for on everything else, with the exception of healthcare and domestic help, which have very high quality vs cost.

Re: Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

#60

I'll give you what I know: I moved to Norway almost a year ago from the midwest US: I absolutely love it here and have no plans on returning to live. I can't give much career advise as I'm not working, but there are tech jobs in oil and naval industries from what I can gather. Being from the US, you will need a job before you move. I didn't have many moving expenses because honestly, I decided it was better to give m…

I moved to Norway recently myself, but from New York City, where I am originally from. It is something I wanted to do for a long time, in part because my grandparents came from where I am now. All these points are true (cost, permit, etc.), but it is not a shock to me when living in Manhattan in terms of prices. There are some things that are quite expensive. My wife would compare food costs to buying stuff at Whole…

>>Summertime in Norway is holiday time. People can take up to the whole month off.

As a fellow Scandinavian I should clarify this:

Despite all the jokes about spending an afternoon in bed sleeping off a hangover and missing the summer, the summer is longer than one month.

I should also say I loved Bergen, the little I've been there. Despite the weather. I see a suitable job there, I'm going to apply for it.

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