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Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

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Re: Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

#231
post #220
post #214

1. Any reason why executive pay can't be reduced and save these jobs ? Why pay stupid executive million and millions dollars and chop jobs of these poor people ? 2. Who determines who gets to stay and who gets to be fired ? Fucked up ranking system ? Ass-Lickers ? 3. Anyone saying layoff are good should really take second look outside during daytime ( 9 - 5). Once you are in battleground of searching job its hell. Re…

re: #1 point is less about cost cutting per se in a lot of cases and more about creating a more efficient and productive organization by firing people who are a drag on things. of course, this is microsoft we're talking about here, so ymmv.

I understand your point. However, its not necessarily people who are drag will get fired. Many smarties , especially one who keep to themselves will be included as well.

I feel sorry for those who are being let go.

Re: Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

#232
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting 80% marketing and PM go? Wow. I thought PM are pretty good in Microsoft.

Didn't Ballmer's reorganisation mean that there was a triad of developer, project manager and tester working together? That would mean one project manager for each developer wouldn't it? Or am I wrong? Has that changed?

We don't have one PM/test per dev, no. My team is currently something like 8 devs, 3 testers, 3 PMs. There was an internal shift to change the test/dev ratio to something like 2/3 or 1/3 (I can't remember exactly) instead of matching it. I don't know of a team in my division that has a 1:1 for PM or test to dev.

Re: Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His writing is shit. Compare his writing to anything from Bezos or Cook.

Most likely he did not write that email himself, that's what assistants are there for.

I sincerely hope that is not true.

Re: Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

#234
post #3

And now, every day for a year, everyone gets to wake up and wonder if this is the day that they will get laid off. Why can't they wait and make the announcement once they know who they will eliminate and do it in one swift action? Why put people in limbo for a year?

It means less severance packages will have to be paid out because a lot of people won't want to be in limbo and will resign on their own first.

Re: Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

#236
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually an attempt to try to be smart about letting people go. Sure, yes, they could come up with a master list and just pull the trigger today. But the odds of sweeping up a huge number of "false positives" grow considerably. The idea behind waiting is that along with these layoffs are a lot of restructuring work - teams get moved around, some people actually get promoted, newly manager-less teams are absorbed…

The downside is that the second this kind of thing gets announced, the good people start to jump ship.

No the good people line up a new job and volunteer to take the redundancy package win win!

Re: Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

#237
post #214

1. Any reason why executive pay can't be reduced and save these jobs ? Why pay stupid executive million and millions dollars and chop jobs of these poor people ? 2. Who determines who gets to stay and who gets to be fired ? Fucked up ranking system ? Ass-Lickers ? 3. Anyone saying layoff are good should really take second look outside during daytime ( 9 - 5). Once you are in battleground of searching job its hell. Re…

If the job is unnecessary why would it be a good idea to "save" it?

i'm not at Microsoft. But, think from prospective that someone could be having life event. Some put years worth of efforts that including physical, mental energy into MS ( or previous Nokia ) , planned something and now potential job loss could be trigger to disaster.

Re: Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

#238
post #3

And now, every day for a year, everyone gets to wake up and wonder if this is the day that they will get laid off. Why can't they wait and make the announcement once they know who they will eliminate and do it in one swift action? Why put people in limbo for a year?

Microsoft employee here: I took this exactly the opposite way. I know I'm valuable, I know many others aren't (sorry: being honest) and this is a good thing from my perspective because at Microsoft we are finally facing reality and getting the right people in place. My only gripe is that the layoffs are not larger - we need about 20% of the marketing folks and 20% of the program managers that we currently have. I wou…

If 80% of Marketing go, I'll eat my shoe.

Actually, I'll be shocked if 10% of Marketing go.

What you're forgetting is those are the people that are best at justifying their own existence.

Re: Microsoft Looks to Cut Up to 18,000 Jobs

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the NT kernel? How does its closed-source nature affect how useful it is? I note that the closed-source iOS kernel seems to also be quite effective, as does the Mach kernel for Mac OSX (despite the existence of and generally not very useful OpenDarwin availability). The history of NT is quite interesting, as is the NT article on Wikipedia. And despite Mac OSX and iOS being BSD-based, my mum doesn't…

Thanks for the reply! (I also assume you are not my downvoter:-) I see the value of replacing the NT kernel by a bsd variant as this: you free ride on a lot of work done by other people. Us software heads have decided we wanted the hard core kernel and compiler engineering to be open source, circa 1990. We've won philosophically, albeit we've lost economically, as the 18000 layoffs and the death of SUN, and transform…

No I am not your downvoter! I do not have downvoting powers yet, sadly! Probably because nobody agrees with me either haha

I can understand some of your arguments. But I would not be too hasty in believing that everyone wants open source or would agree that open source kernels are better. I don't dispute it! But, a lot of Windows developers wouldn't touch Linux with a barge pole, nor would they even know about any of the BSDs. And there isn't a push in Apple land for open-sourcing the vast swathes of kernel code or supporting APIs like Cocoa or Carbon from developers. They just want the APIs to be available, and to work. Not many people really care about the open source nature of it, I don't think? They do care about the price, but not the open source nature of it. Besides, most developers accept that there is a cost to developing and likely factor in the cost of the IDE and hardware, such as an iPad. The massive success of the iPad and the App Store would indicate that people accept that they need to pay for something (although Xcode is free); the fee to be on the app store and to develop on your own device is real enough.

The massive popularity of C# and the continued sales of Visual Studio (or is everyone using the Express versions???) would also indicate that not that many people care about the new features of languages elsewhere, even if they are really interesting and in open source languages. C# implements enough of their own interesting features to keep them happy, and surely you'd agree that old languages have been around long enough and enough code written in them that has been useful to not mean we should chuck them in the bin? Does that really old bit of C code looking after that telephone exchange really need to be rewritten because the language and program is old? Do we definitely need language innovations? They're interesting and make nerds happy but some would argue that the old languages don't have that many "problems" that need fixing with (yet another) language.

I myself have enough of a job trying to keep up with new language features and innovations and would welcome a slow down in some respects! I want to be able to write code, not necessarily use latest whizz-bang features. (In fact, I'd welcome opportunity to use C++11 features but the Windows compiler at work is VS2010; I have xcode too but obviously can't share code between the two)

I am not sure Microsoft's install base is shrinking as drastically as everyone likes to make out. Sure, non-Windows smart phones are widespread and iPads are popular (sometimes even where BYOD is implemented in an organisation) but in the business world, Exchange + Office still rule, as does Windows Server (despite us opting to use Linux or BSD where we can).

I really think you're in the minority if you think there will be a sudden migration to open source platforms using open source tools and new languages. A lot of developers wouldn't use open source because they consider it "unfinished". Look at the disdain you'll receive for installing LibreOffice instead of Office from someone used to Office.

And in any case, if Microsoft were suddenly to chuck 30 years of their work in the bin and go all open-source, wouldn't that just transform them into a services company? How could they make money from their fully open-source software other than consultancy on it? Apple certainly hasn't done that; they've made money from building on top of BSD. The BSD licensing means you don't need to give the code back after you've built on top of it, so even if it was BSD code Microsoft suddenly used, they'd be in the same "it's ours! you can't have it" position they are in now, and so would we as external developers (no access to their code). So why would Microsoft do that? How would it benefit them or us?

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