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Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

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Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#81
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft employee here. My main concern is the fact that I'm the US on an H-1B visa. I really, really, really don't want to go back to my country, but that will be the case if I'm laid off and unable to find another H-1B sponsor in a very short time. :(

This is the #1 reason why I won't stay in the US after my phd. I have no interest in being a random CEO whim away from either having to uproot my life and move back home or frantically try to land a new job all in the short period of 15 days. For those curious the #2 reason is that H1Bs make it hard to do even simple extracurricular activities like writing books or do consulting on the side related to an open source…

There are fast tracks to permanent residence after a PhD [1]. But if you don't want to immigrate (owe US taxes for foreign income, etc.) then you're right. Staying on H1B is no way to live.

[1] http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/entrepreneur-visa-guide#...

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#82
post #10

I knew Microsoft was on the way out but I didn't know the situation was so bad. Hopefully those who lost their jobs will find a place at Google or Apple.

Layoffs are a sign that a company has been struggling, or has been slowing, or has grown disproportionately in personell, but that someone is doing something that probably needs to be done. It is not always the solution, but it is also not a sign of ultimate doom.

From what I've heard, if you're not working on cloud services, you're a dinosaur.

They just let go of XP and cloud services are making the need to support office version X for 10 years less relevant. MS must spend a ridiculous amount of time & treasure supporting old crap.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#83

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

Facebook does indeed have a very efficient corporate structure (whether that will last is another question). Perhaps 7,000 to 7,300 employees (assuming some pickup the last quarter or two), and $8.9 billion in sales. Microsoft by comparison had roughly 15,000 employees when they had that level of revenue (adjusting for inflation), circa 1993 / 1994.

But Facebook is in a much more tenuous position. Nobody really needs Facebook; it's mostly entertainment and could be toppled in a few years time by the next internet/tech fad. Microsoft is a lot more entrenched in a lot more places that actually depend on their software.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#84
post #24
post #13

Never good news to hear about layoffs, but for those that are affected I can say there is life beyond Microsoft. (it might even be better!)

Microsoft employee here. My main concern is the fact that I'm the US on an H-1B visa. I really, really, really don't want to go back to my country, but that will be the case if I'm laid off and unable to find another H-1B sponsor in a very short time. :(

Hang in there bro. I got laid off on H1-B last year. While technically you become "out of status" on the day you get laid off (severance and payroll doesnt matter), you can stick around for a reasonable amount of time to find a new job. The strictest interpretation for that time is 10 days but I know folks who took 2 months. Good luck!

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#85
post #21

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

The problem is that if the culture is already bad, it's very easy to shed the false positives, i.e. the good people, and keep the false negatives.

i think you mean the other way around.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#86
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that if the culture is already bad, it's very easy to shed the false positives, i.e. the good people, and keep the false negatives.

i think you mean the other way around.

when looking for crap, setting off the crap sensor would be a positive result... you don't want to accidentally fire the good ones.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#87
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook does indeed have a very efficient corporate structure (whether that will last is another question). Perhaps 7,000 to 7,300 employees (assuming some pickup the last quarter or two), and $8.9 billion in sales. Microsoft by comparison had roughly 15,000 employees when they had that level of revenue (adjusting for inflation), circa 1993 / 1994.

Let's be honest, Facebook has a much more efficient product, and by that I mean the product does most of the work for them.

Microsoft had a product that was bundled with ever computer sold. If that's not a product selling itself I don't know what is.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#88
Context: I was at Microsoft during the first and only round of layoffs in company history (2009). My job was not impacted at all by the layoffs so I speaking from my memory of what was happening around me. In fact, I was working on an incubation project that was one of the few ideas that was green-lighted with a pretty sizable team that year.

My perspective: From a company perspective, eliminating 5000 people in 2009 was a great idea. It was (and is) a huge company so it probably could have been more. However, the layoffs in 2009 were seriously botched. Many organizational best practices were violated.

Microsoft made an announcement saying that there would be ~5000 layoffs and that they would be completed over the following 18 months. This timeframe is too long! Layoff best practices say: cut deep and cut fast. Get rid of the people that have to be let go, treat them as well as you can on the way out, and then show some serious TLC to the employees you want to retain and rebuild your culture and trust with the people who stick around. Don't let the entire company live in fear for 18 months!

As much as the stack rank was a thing at Microsoft in those days, even if you were the lowest ranked employees for 2 years, Microsoft was hard-pressed to actually fire anybody. Even during this time of layoffs, Microsoft decided to divest in many businesses/products and chose not to eliminate people based on performance.

For example, they shipped one last version of MS Money and then the whole team was RIF-ed. Everybody on that team would get ~2 months to interview and find other jobs in the company otherwise they got a generous severance package and were no longer employed. Combine this with the fact that many Microsoft teams had recently restricted their headcount, it was relatively more difficult than it ever had been to find a job within the company.

The divesting strategy was interesting and it probably would have been a good way to do massive position elimination except that not all final versions of products were aligned to ship in the same timeframe. So anybody working on small-ish or lame-ish products had a fear for many many months that after shipping their current product, they would be out of a job. IIRC, this strategy of divesting took about ~12 months instead of the 18 months they originally announced before they provided comfort to the employees that the layoffs had completed.

This was also during the economic downturn of 2008 so there was extra angst from people who lost their job because they had just lost a lot of their net worth from a seriously depressed market. Morale suffered. Lots of good people defected to Amazon, Facebook, Google.

This time around, I hope Microsoft does a better job of keeping the timeframe for cutting to a reasonable period of time like 1-2 months. Unfortunately, even if you make it through the layoffs and feel secure that you have SOME JOB, you'll probably not really know WHAT SPECIFICALLY you're working on until all of the re-orgs play out. This is colloquially known as re-org hell.

Best of luck to the people impacted. It's a relatively better market this time around. If any of you make it to San Francisco, I'm happy to grab coffee or give you pointers on some cool companies looking for great people.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#89

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

At Google, if you don't make it to level 5 sweng within a certain amount of time(2 years from being hired at level 4), you will most likely get fired. After that you can relax more. So the fluff in software engineering(including managers) is minimal. Facebook though... Ask their employees how that build system is working out for them. There's a lot of doing, agreed, but sometimes you need to just take a chill pill, stop the goddamn hacking for chrissakes, design THEN code.
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