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Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

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Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#51

Post by CMCDragonkai »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

That's what Enron did and General Electric under Jack Welch. Up or out strategy. If you put the incentive under delivering something of value too much, you end up with people lying. Sometimes it's not just about star individuals, but star teams.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#52

Post by cesarbs »

curiouslurker wrote: post #48
cesarbs wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft employee here. My main concern is the fact that I'm the US on an H-1B visa. I really, really, really don't want to go back to my country, but that will be the case if I'm laid off and unable to find another H-1B sponsor in a very short time. :(

I feel for you as a former H1-B holder. If you are past a certain stage you can work for yourself legally. Set up an LLC and get software contracting gigs. If you are in Seattle talk to Kevin Lederman, a leading immigration lawyer and he can advise you accordingly.

Unfortunately, I don't even have PERM yet :\

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#53

Post by jarsin »

liveoneggs wrote: post #41
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

and who selects the ones to fire? The ass-kissers of course.

Exactly. Every layoff i have seen personally or through close friends at other company's the ass kissers survive and those t hat threaten them get laid off. Those that threaten them (the competent ones) are always painted as non team players because generally the competent ones are unhappy when the teams gain so many slick talking ass kissers but few doers.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#54

Post by mikeyouse »

CMCDragonkai wrote: post #51
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

That's what Enron did and General Electric under Jack Welch. Up or out strategy. If you put the incentive under delivering something of value too much, you end up with people lying. Sometimes it's not just about star individuals, but star teams.

To provide a counterpoint:

Enron collapsed under massive fraud and GE would have been bankrupt if they had to mark-to-market their debt during the financial crisis.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#55

Post by adventured »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

Facebook does indeed have a very efficient corporate structure (whether that will last is another question).

Perhaps 7,000 to 7,300 employees (assuming some pickup the last quarter or two), and $8.9 billion in sales.

Microsoft by comparison had roughly 15,000 employees when they had that level of revenue (adjusting for inflation), circa 1993 / 1994.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#56

Post by pyre »

CMCDragonkai wrote: post #51
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

That's what Enron did and General Electric under Jack Welch. Up or out strategy. If you put the incentive under delivering something of value too much, you end up with people lying. Sometimes it's not just about star individuals, but star teams.

> Up or out strategy

I think that 'up or out' is slightly different than 'deliver something of tangible value.' It's possible to keep delivering value without wanting to be promoted into (e.g.) management.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#57

Post by bkjelden »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

As someone currently with the company, this description of some mid-level management really resonates with me.

I am incredibly skeptical, however, that any round of layoffs attempting to get rid of these people will have a good hit rate. Plenty of really talented engineers and engineering managers will end up losing their jobs too.

I a lot of my older peers from university went to work for IBM for a couple years right after school, where layoffs occurred pretty regularly. The culture they've described to me, that was present as a result of constant layoffs, isn't something I think many current Microsoft employees will want to be a part of.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#58

Post by sopooneo »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #18

Any company that has been around for as long as Microsoft, has a huge amount of dead weight in its mid-level management. I mean people whose main skill is mastery of the internal political process. Lest people think I'm singling out Microsoft specifically, this same problem is present at Google as well, but is less of a problem because Google has not been around long enough to pick up the same amount of dead weight p…

I have begun wondering lately if the reasons for the inevitable death of living things has any anologue to the dynamics you describe here for corporations.

Re: Large Round of Layoffs Expected at Microsoft

#59

Post by sopooneo »

mikeyouse wrote: post #54
CMCDragonkai wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what Enron did and General Electric under Jack Welch. Up or out strategy. If you put the incentive under delivering something of value too much, you end up with people lying. Sometimes it's not just about star individuals, but star teams.

To provide a counterpoint: Enron collapsed under massive fraud and GE would have been bankrupt if they had to mark-to-market their debt during the financial crisis.

What does it mean that they would have been bankrupt? I thought (wrongly perhaps) that you were only bankrupt if you couldn't pay your bills. So no matter their true debt back then, doesn't GE's current existence prove they weren't bankrupt?
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