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The Data of Hate

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Re: The Data of Hate

#91

Post by ryandrake »

blendergasket wrote: post #38
cpa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I think you're right, that is definitely not what's happening on Stormfront. There's nobody "pushing back", just racist people talking together.

Yeah, I agree with this. On the internet it's so easy to get sucked into an echo chamber and completely cloister oneself in some belief system or another. Then every other perspective is the foolish mainstream media who are only there to feed the sheeple or some agenda of the enemy. I think these echo chambers breed/cater to a sort of messianic paranoia.

"On the internet it's so easy to get sucked into an echo chamber and completely cloister oneself in some belief system or another."

This being posted on Hacker News is pretty breathtaking :-)

Re: The Data of Hate

#92

Post by QuantumChaos »

ddellacosta wrote: post #90
QuantumChaos wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What is wrong with that? Do the Jewish people somehow not deserve existence? Why should we not celebrate our culture and religion the same way Christians, Croats, and Italians do? (for example.) If Jewish people deserve existence (as a group, not individuals), then White people deserve existence as a group. You say that White people are allowed to celebrate their culture and religion, and yet these are precisely the…

> If Jewish people deserve existence (as a group, not individuals), then White people deserve existence as a group. This makes no sense. Jewish people as a group have a very long shared cultural and religious history. However, the concept of "white people" is a fairly recent cultural and political construct and has changed dramatically over the years--for example, at one point in the United States Irish and Italians…

The European diaspora has more than 2000 years of shared religion, language and culture.

This is far more significant than some trivia about the word "White" that is making the rounds in progressive circles.

Re: The Data of Hate

#93

Post by kamaal »

middleclick wrote: post #48
bhaumik wrote: post #19

Discussion around this article: https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1051922/ Germany's win today: https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1052081/ "Yes. I like Argentina also because they're mostly white, and they sheltered the heroes of our race after the Zionist take-over of Europe. But I was for Germany all the way. I loved how they utterly crushed Brazil in their own house. I don't like that they have to have an African…

So much hate, wow. How do these people manage to live their lives with all this hate? I am guessing it would be very heavy?

Hate isn't an event. Its a process these people undergo over years. If you browse their history and activities over the internet, like say on twitter. You will generally see they go in search of new stories to justify their theories almost every day.

Over years they build a case around what they believe and why that's true.

If anything their belief in what ever they want to, just grows stronger by the day.

Re: The Data of Hate

#94

Post by philwelch »

QuantumChaos wrote: post #89
philwelch wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European-descended people as a whole don't have a common ethnicity, language, or culture.

They certainly have much more in common in all these areas than they do with non-Europeans.

"Certainly"? I don't think that's the case. Can you expand on what you think I'm missing? There are countries outside of Europe--entire continents, really-- that speak a European languages. Do you really think Chileans have less in common with Spaniards than Lithuanians? I'd even guess that African-Americans and white Americans are more similar than white Americans and Danes in terms of language and culture.

Re: The Data of Hate

#95

Post by barry-cotter »

tokenadult wrote: post #62

The kind of people who hang out on the Stormfront website are the kind of people who cram all kinds of point-of-view pushing into articles on Wikipedia, "the encyclopedia anyone can edit." Basically, you would be wise to assume that any article on Wikipedia that pertains to any topic related to "race" (broadly construed) or immigration or the history of Fascist or neo-Nazi movements is skewed at present toward the St…

I didn't downvote you.

Point of view pushing is inescapable.

permanently brain-damaged and no longer able to perceive or understand facts contrary to their ideological position

This is the normal state of affairs. Most intellectually curious people never break out of the first paradigm they are exposed to. Most people never get that far because they're not intellectually curious. At some point you have to trust somebody or something because it fits with what you know of the world, and makes sense. It's a pity some people stop with stormfront but they'll never have any political influence so I'm not too worried.

I have to say that coming from you I find this amusing. Anytime you and yummyfajitas have a discussion you not so subtly accuse him of being a racist and pretend you've addressed his points by dumping a list of references on the thread.

By the way saying it's "human nature to discriminate" is completely defensible. You may disagree with the connotations, but any introductory social psychology textbook will do. You must know that too, because you're part of that journal reading group at your local university, right?

Re: The Data of Hate

#96

Post by igravious »

henrymercer wrote: post #78
igravious wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, silly michaelochurch. It's black on white crime of course. (Well according to your comment.) Add to that faulty logic. Add to that the general degradation of morals and the kids of today, I tell you. --- Let's completely forget the centuries long history of white on black oppression that has led to the unequal socio-economic conditions between blacks and whites. I'd, you know, cut them some slack. --- You do re…

" Let's completely forget the centuries long history of white on black oppression that has led to the unequal socio-economic conditions between blacks and whites. I'd, you know, cut them some slack. " By saying "cut them some slack" you are implying that I am doing the opposite. IE, I you are implying that I am being too hard on black people. How is this case? I pointed out a legitimate problem - black-on-white crime…

> ... "I am being too hard on black people" ...

I'm doing more than that. I'm calling you out. That word `legitimate' is very sneaky. I'd say it's close to racist to assert that black on white crime is a "legitimate problem" rather than just a "social problem" or a plain old "problem". There are _fucking_ well documented systemic _reasons_ for why there may be statistically more (per capita or whatever) black on white crime than white on white crime. So it's _not_ a legitimate problem. It would _only_ be legitimate if all other things being equal black on white crime was higher than other types purely because black people are black. If you can't or don't want to or won't see that you're racist. It _is_ a problem, all crime is a problem, it's _not_ a legitimate problem in that it does not legitimate racist attitudes towards blacks because only wilful ignorance could be blind to the socio-economic conditions that give rise to this crime.

> Yes ... "Each generation was slightly more decadent than the previous." ... ISIS ... my lifetime

Hey, you know, horseshit. Or bullshit, or whatever. I'm not even going to debate your there.

> "Is that a threat?"

No. It was advice to you to drop the more idiotic claims you are making so that you stop being an idiot. I am not joking.

Re: The Data of Hate

#97

Post by kijin »

asuffield wrote: post #27
rdtsc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we could locate the source of these ideas, perhaps there could be a way of battling it. That is interesting. It would be nice if there was a source for these ideas (well besides human nature) and if it was curable. We want to think these people a basically good but sick. Something happened to them and they became like this. If we could only prevent or even undo that. Could it be for example that by default peopl…

I don't think there's any innate racism, but people do tend to be hostile towards those who they see as "not of their own tribe". This view of the problem would suggest that racism is the result of people having a very narrow world-view, where they don't recognise many other people as being "like them". This would seem to be a solvable problem. We can break down communication barriers. The internet is already transfo…

The internet does help break down communication barriers, but I'm not sure how much it really helps when it comes to racism.

It's so easy to talk with someone on the internet without knowing anything about their ethnic background. In fact I have no idea whether you're black, white, Jewish, Indian, whatever. So if I were a chauvinistic white supremacist, I could just pretend that everyone who writes thoughtful comments on HN is a white dude. This contrasts sharply with the real world, where you can't help noticing a person's gender and skin color before you ever exchange a word with him or her.

The internet also helps people erect strong barriers that might otherwise have been too weak to sustain. Stormfront.org helps turn potential neo-Nazis into actual neo-Nazis, helps them unite despite their geographical dispersion, empowers them to publicly boast their bigotry, and worst of all, gives them a comfortable environment where they never have to confront any other opinion. The fragmentation of online communities keeps prejudices alive in the gaps.

Re: The Data of Hate

#98

Post by QuantumChaos »

philwelch wrote: post #94
QuantumChaos wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly have much more in common in all these areas than they do with non-Europeans.

"Certainly"? I don't think that's the case. Can you expand on what you think I'm missing? There are countries outside of Europe--entire continents, really-- that speak a European languages. Do you really think Chileans have less in common with Spaniards than Lithuanians? I'd even guess that African-Americans and white Americans are more similar than white Americans and Danes in terms of language and culture.

What you are missing is that you are focusing entirely on edge cases. No sociological category is so airtight that you cannot "deconstruct" it. E.g. it is also true that Jewish Americans have more in common with non-Jewish Americans in terms of language and culture than Jewish Israelis. Does that mean that, like Whiteness, Jewishness is simply a category that has been invented to serve some political purpose?

Re: The Data of Hate

#99

Post by philwelch »

QuantumChaos wrote: post #98
philwelch wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Certainly"? I don't think that's the case. Can you expand on what you think I'm missing? There are countries outside of Europe--entire continents, really-- that speak a European languages. Do you really think Chileans have less in common with Spaniards than Lithuanians? I'd even guess that African-Americans and white Americans are more similar than white Americans and Danes in terms of language and culture.

What you are missing is that you are focusing entirely on edge cases. No sociological category is so airtight that you cannot "deconstruct" it. E.g. it is also true that Jewish Americans have more in common with non-Jewish Americans in terms of language and culture than Jewish Israelis. Does that mean that, like Whiteness, Jewishness is simply a category that has been invented to serve some political purpose?

> What you are missing is that you are focusing entirely on edge cases.

Am I? I could name half a dozen other cases, but you're the one who stated your point without actually providing any argument for it so I feel like it's your turn rather than just throwing around words like "certainly" as if they're a proof of anything.

Here's the basis of my counterargument: no one, other than a fringe group of crypto-neo-Nazis, takes "white", to be defined as "European", seriously as an ethnic identity. This is certainly not the case with "Jewish". Jews have identified with other Jews for centuries. You can't even go back a single century before your pan-European notion of "white" identity breaks down. English-descended people refused to consider Spanish and Italian-descended people as "white". Even German Nazis didn't consider themselves the same race as Slavic people. The entire notion of ethnic identity is based on a shared history, and there's no shared history between Bosniaks and Basques that would meaningfully exclude any non-whites.

So I ask, why do people try and advance this ahistoric "white" identity out of nothing? My contention is that it's motivated by antipathy if not outright hatred towards races considered as "non-white".

Re: The Data of Hate

#100

Post by tinco »

igravious wrote: post #96
henrymercer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Let's completely forget the centuries long history of white on black oppression that has led to the unequal socio-economic conditions between blacks and whites. I'd, you know, cut them some slack. " By saying "cut them some slack" you are implying that I am doing the opposite. IE, I you are implying that I am being too hard on black people. How is this case? I pointed out a legitimate problem - black-on-white crime…

> ... "I am being too hard on black people" ... I'm doing more than that. I'm calling you out. That word `legitimate' is very sneaky. I'd say it's close to racist to assert that black on white crime is a "legitimate problem" rather than just a "social problem" or a plain old "problem". There are _fucking_ well documented systemic _reasons_ for why there may be statistically more (per capita or whatever) black on whit…

Why don't you cool down, henrymercers comments are some of the more intelligent and reasonable comments in this thread. If you would read calmly you would see there is no racism in his words, he is simply not being racist. The word 'legitimate' does not restrict the meaning of the sentence to anything you imply.

Though I agree that his paragraph about decadency through the ages is a bit nutty, everyone has their strange beliefs. Nothing wrong with that.

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