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Too Much Power For One Man

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Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#81

Post by ilaksh »

I assume that this comment will just be buried so that others can't even read it, since it will go against most people's belief systems.

I saw several people in here say something about "conspiracy theories" as if to refute a "conspiracy theory" that was stated in the thread. But I didn't see any such thing said. Maybe I missed it.

I will go ahead and start on the "conspiracy theories" by linking to the following story from Al Jazeera:

Exclusive: Emails reveal close Google relationship with NSA

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/6/nsa-chief-goo...

Why would anyone think that everyone (the world) would just let Larry Page and Google do whatever they want? At a certain point, either people with power attached themselves to this enterprise, or they just decided to give up their power and let Page and Google take it.

I think its a fantasy to believe that there aren't governments involved or that they really just have everyone's best interests in mind.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#82

Post by cookiecaper »

wwwwwwwwww wrote: post #9
themartorana wrote: post #4

With truly evil billionaires out there - the Koch brothers come to mind - and family run organizations that take horrible advantage of employees - like Walmart and the Waltons - why is it so many people want to make a case against Google and its founders? Yes, it makes sense to keep a check on powers. But I'm way more worried about all of our three-letter agencies and the private billionaire donations behind the powe…

>With truly evil billionaires out there - the Koch brothers come to mind what the fuck do you think gives you the right to claim someone is evil? I literally cannot imagine how much of a goddamn bubble you must live in to think you have any right to call someone evil because their political opinions differ from yours.

A little harsh, but I agree in general. The Koch Brothers spend their money promoting mainstream political causes in a legal, and as far as I know, fairly standard, manner. There are financiers on the left that do the same things, and just as it was silly when the right was foaming at the mouth about Carl Icahn, it's silly when the left foams about the Kochs. It seems that people hate whichever one their chosen media network decides to demonize, but really both are playing according to the rules (as far as I know; neither have been convicted of a crime related to this yet, at least).

Some people are just bitter, and specifically, the hacker community has a long-standing issue with tolerance.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#83

Post by gpcz »

gadders wrote: post #35
themartorana wrote: post #4

With truly evil billionaires out there - the Koch brothers come to mind - and family run organizations that take horrible advantage of employees - like Walmart and the Waltons - why is it so many people want to make a case against Google and its founders? Yes, it makes sense to keep a check on powers. But I'm way more worried about all of our three-letter agencies and the private billionaire donations behind the powe…

Yeah, the Koch Brothers are evil. That George Soros, though, he's totally a force for good. The reality is that left and right all have their rich supporters, and only the truly blinkered would say one side is "evil" and the other is "good". The Koch brothers donated hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research. Have you given as much?

Themartorana never said that the left was good and the right was evil, and never said anything about George Soros. Even worse, you are engaging in a tu quoque fallacy to defend this perceived partisanship.

The Koch brothers spent $31 million in 2012 to lobby for their coal power interests [1], which is linked to higher rates of lung cancer for miners, people who live near mines [2], and people who live near coal power plants [3]. I consider their cancer research donations restitution.

[1]: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/07/oil-lobby-coal-...

[2]: http://www.scopemed.org/?mno=20068

[3]: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19187950

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#84

Post by pjscott »

k__ wrote: post #11
wwwwwwwwww wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>With truly evil billionaires out there - the Koch brothers come to mind what the fuck do you think gives you the right to claim someone is evil? I literally cannot imagine how much of a goddamn bubble you must live in to think you have any right to call someone evil because their political opinions differ from yours.

Isn't evil as undefined as good?

Although people have different definitions of 'good' and 'evil', in practice most people roughly agree about most of it. Humans have very similar minds. It's easy to lose sight of this, since discussion mostly focuses on the parts where we disagree, but that's some pretty serious selection bias.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#85

Post by aragot »

makmanalp wrote: post #52

Wild conspiracy theory aside, I just realized that in a few years after the nest userbase grows more, they could tweak the temperature setting algorithm to secretly and gradually lower the user's "acceptable" temperature over time to acclimate users to lower temperatures, cutting energy usage in the world by a significant amount. Conspiracy for good? :)

Good mind! Come to France ;) We're not keen on AC, our office temperatures are rather 23-27 in summer, we sometimes stink and we know it's good for ecology. BTW, I'm not sure Nest has any potential in France. Maybe in international hotels only?

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#86

Post by anon4 »

jp555 wrote: post #10

A fitting cartoon analogy for cartoon logic. I am reminded of an Alan Moore quote: “In the mid 1980's I was asked by an american legal institution known as the Christic Legal Institute to compile a comic book that would detail the murky history of the C.I.A., from the end of the second world war, to the present day. Covering such things as the heroin smuggling during the Vietnam war, the cocaine smuggling during the…

Can't believe nobody's linked this yet http://xkcd.com/1274/

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#87

Post by dang »

nmrm wrote: post #60
kabouseng wrote: post #57

This, and some of the comments sounds like something out of Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". Damn those that make profit and dont share it with those with less ability...

What the hell are you talking about? The article is about power, not money. Also, there's no suggested course of action. In fact, a legitimate course of action could be "stop using Google's services so that if shit hits the fan, they don't have your data". How could enlightened self-interest of consumers ever possibly be construed as an assault on liberty (or whatever-the-hell)? It's really best never to think of tho…

> What the hell are you talking about?

Please don't—even when the other person is being provocative.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#88

Post by dwd »

anon4 wrote: post #86
jp555 wrote: post #10

A fitting cartoon analogy for cartoon logic. I am reminded of an Alan Moore quote: “In the mid 1980's I was asked by an american legal institution known as the Christic Legal Institute to compile a comic book that would detail the murky history of the C.I.A., from the end of the second world war, to the present day. Covering such things as the heroin smuggling during the Vietnam war, the cocaine smuggling during the…

Can't believe nobody's linked this yet http://xkcd.com/1274/

Too distracted watching the football...

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#89

Post by dm2 »

jqm wrote: post #48
scalene wrote: post #44

What about the Presidency of the United States? Anyone that gets elected to this position has quite a bit more power than Larry Page.

I don't think modern presidents actually have as much power as people commonly assume. The massive bureaucracies under them take awhile to learn to navigate... and by that time your 4-8 years is up. Not to mention checks and balances.

The POTUS is unquestionably the most powerful person on the planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_of_the_President_of_the_...

The ability to engage in wars of almost any scale by itself is enough to command the respect of anyone. They're suppose to have congressional approval but they regularly bypass that.

The President of the US also is tasked with appointing over 6000 of the top federal officials and federal judges. The POTUS can change the CIA director (which is arguably the 2nd most powerful organization in the world, only seconded by the US Navy), and the NSA, FBI, NASA, and many others.

Foreign and domestic policy is greatly influenced by the President, they can very easily change the direction of humanity, (Iraq and Afghanistan wars, millions killed, so much money spent, unknown what the world would be like today if they hadn't happened).

If the president really wanted to, he could declassify almost anything and even give the order to launch a nuclear missile (might require Emergency Powers, which he has the right to use).

Forbes says Putin is more powerful, it's debatable I suppose. http://www.forbes.com/powerful-people/list/

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#90

Post by dwd »

jp555 wrote: post #10

A fitting cartoon analogy for cartoon logic. I am reminded of an Alan Moore quote: “In the mid 1980's I was asked by an american legal institution known as the Christic Legal Institute to compile a comic book that would detail the murky history of the C.I.A., from the end of the second world war, to the present day. Covering such things as the heroin smuggling during the Vietnam war, the cocaine smuggling during the…

It's helpful to also consider conspiracies using Julian Assange's framework which may have been influenced by Moore.

http://estaticos.elmundo.es/documentos/2010/12/01/conspiraci...

Without secrecy there is no conspiracy.

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