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New russian 8-core CPU

mcst.ru

51–58 of 58 posts

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run, not only are they (the russians) going to use it in place of any foreign CPUs but lots of states which currently have no options would prefer to buy processors and software from the russians rather than the americans (Brazil, Iran, Syria, Cuba and many other "not aligned" countries). Russians/Soviets have a long history of having parallel development of technology (including special purpose microproc…

But look at that list of customers - hardly rich nations. Total sales? Millions. Profit - around zero.

Savings due to data secrecy - billions. USA not knowing their military plans - priceless.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#52

> Система программирования платформы поддерживает языки С, С++, Java, Фортран-77, Фортран-90. its interesting they called out support for fortan 77 and fortran 90

If the Russians are developing this chip for their infrastuccture and mission critical aspects, FORTRAN 77 and 90 support makes sense. Finite Element Analysis software (CATIA, SolidWorks and the like...) are Fortran or its ilk..

Same goes for HPC.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#53
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because those nations aren't considered "rich", it doesn't mean they're penniless. Russia has a long history of profitable trade to that list of countries. They sold US$1.1 billion in goods to the Syrians alone in 2010. So the idea that they couldn't build an industry selling a good that those countries can't or won't buy from the West doesn't hold water.

Its a question of opportunity cost. Make a CPU to sell to Syria - you might make a few bucks (though I doubt it); could you have done better? Surely. As for trade stats: the US SHOE industry is an order of magnitude larger than that - $20 billion annually { http://statisticbrain.com/footwear-industry-statistics/ }. 1.1 billion seems like a big number until you consider: a chip manufacturing plant costs more than that…

Took Econ 101 and got a B-. Got it. This isn't a simplistic, classical microeconomic analysis.

First, just because a multi-billion dollar market exists for a product, that doesn't mean that there aren't highly profitable, multi-million dollar markets that exist in the same industry. This is especially true when the "market" is impacted by things things like trade policy asymmetry, sanctions, embargoes and national policy.

Second, there's no reason to think this "market" is motivated solely or even primarily by revenue/profit in the classic sense. If you add the "benefit" of poking the West in the eye, and the national pride angle, the alternative market decision isn't "I could make money doing other things with this money". The whole history of the Cold War proves this out.

There's a reason MiGs and AKs are common as cockroaches.

Third, it doesn't matter what a fab costs to build, unless you want to build one. This is an arbitrage issue; there's plenty of non-Western places that have first-world fab capacity that would be more than happy to crank out Russian IP all day long. More importantly, they have local, non-Western talent to do the heavy lifting associated with tailoring Russian IP to fine geometry fabrication.

Ultimately, this is a political, not economic decision. And it doesn't matter if Intel has a bigger/faster/stronger processor (I agree with you that it will). It matters that the Russians (just like the Chinese have done for a decade with Loongson) can legitimately say "we have a locally produced alternative to the Western hegemony". And let's not forget that the Chinese have taken what amounts to a licensed MIPS derivative with a fraction of Intels R&D budget and produced top-10 TFLOP supercomputers. Also see: ARM.

And I want to point out something that I don't see mentioned that much. If you read the proceedings of HotChips or one of the other conferences, not all, or even most, of those papers are being submitted by Westerners. While they work mostly for Western companies now, it's not like we're the only source of innovation in the world. You only have to look to ARM to see how a modest investment by wildly talented engineers can toss the market on it's ear over time.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#54
post #46
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're just worried about bugged hardware, why develop a new architecture? Can't you use your own clean room implementation of an existing architecture?

Someone else mentioned that the architecture is based of Sparc technology (Sun's line of CPUs, which is a mips derivative iirc). It's hardly a completely new architecture.

Sparc isn't a derivative of MIPS.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#55

This is the one based on ARMv8 ISA, right? It doesn't seem to mention it there. I think that one may be from another company, though: http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/russia-arm-intel-amd-proce...

Could be this one:

http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/the-elbrus-2-a-soviet-e...

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#56
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else mentioned that the architecture is based of Sparc technology (Sun's line of CPUs, which is a mips derivative iirc). It's hardly a completely new architecture.

Sparc isn't a derivative of MIPS.

Thanks for correcting me: indeed, it's an open architecture which was used by Sun, Fujitsu and TI for their CPUs, and it's unrelated to MIPS.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#57

Running through Google translate [1] gives pretty sparse press release on the Elbrus-8. Interesting bits are 'binary translation of x86' and '25 instructions at one' so a 25 instruction super scalar pipeline and dynamic instruction translation, historically has been slow as the proverbial pig on non-native code. That arose from an incredible amount of memory churn (MemOPS) when running translated code slowing the pro…

I doubt it is 25 operation super-scalar, it most likely is a 25-issue VLIW. Elbrus has been doing them for a long while[1].

I doubt it will be fast on translated code, but Transmeta could do x86-to-VLIW translation reasonably 10 years ago, so it isn't impossible. If they have similar software, it should be quite fast. Of course, the Crusoe and Efficeon are less wide (4 and 8 functional units iirc?) but I doubt x86 is the preferred instruction set for these, it is probably there to allow mixed-mode software (x86 OS + some native applications?)

Since it seems to be built for HPC, 3 cpu-to-cpu links, 4 DDR memory controllers, over 20MB of cache. This probably makes a bit of sense, you could run a regular x86 version of Linux for most applications and support binary driver blobs etc. But then compile certain computational software as native code.

The teams behind this processor probably have built HPC stuff since the seventies[2], I doubt they would gain anything by switching direction.

[1] http://www.realworldtech.com/elbrus/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus_%28computer%29

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can be a successful startup in the processor arena. But it can never succeed by trying to do same thing better/cheaper. You want to offer replacement product on the other hand - very different but serving the same purpose. You don't succeed in automotive industry by trying to directly compete with BMW, this is absolutely hopeless. Tesla has a real shot on success on the other hand. Same here: next Intel won't b…

Sorry, I just find your argument without any merit. Contrary to your claim, Tesla does compete directly with BMW, for the same sales dollars, in the same part of the market, providing a solution to the same audience, and even segment, and in the same problem space. If we can't agree on even the definition of "compete", it's unlikely that we can further each other's understanding. Also, the idea that 'if they succeed'…

Just a note that despite a downvote on this response, my specific example is enormously vindicated 3 days later as Tesla just announced the Model 3, which sites headline as "Tesla Model 3 to challenge BMW 3 Series", writing: "Tesla founder and CEO Elon Musk has revealed plans for a new electric BMW 3 Series rival, including its name – Tesla Model 3."

https://www.google.com/search?q=model+3

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