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Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

lemonde.fr

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Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#21

Post by agumonkey »

Artemis2 wrote: post #18
GuiA wrote: post #13

According to other sources, it seems like what will be taught is HTML: http://www.bafweb.com/2014/07/13/lapprentissage-du-langage-h... The posted article also points out that the classes will be "périscolaire", i.e. outside of regular class hours. This means that the teachers who teach those courses will have to stay late. Only the super-committed teachers will volunteer to do that - and it's not a given that there w…

Exactly. Teaching a markup language won't be really useful in terms of the benefits programming brings to people who learn it: it lacks the most interesting part of programming, logic. Making a computer display stuff is an achievement, but not an end. What is needed here is to teach students how to think like a computer, which is what most programmers are passionate about. It would be a lot more interesting to teach…

Unless they include a fair share of javascript* then this is complete rubbish.

* or any language targetting js.

Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#22

Post by sfermigier »

That's terrific news.

The official word used is "coding", not "programming", which leaves a slightly bad aftertaste.

Anyway, there is already an option for the scientific students in the last year of high school, the so called "Computer and digital science" (https://www.ac-paris.fr/portail/jcms/p1_482196/option-inform...).

Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#23

Post by Furzel »

GuiA wrote: post #13

According to other sources, it seems like what will be taught is HTML: http://www.bafweb.com/2014/07/13/lapprentissage-du-langage-h... The posted article also points out that the classes will be "périscolaire", i.e. outside of regular class hours. This means that the teachers who teach those courses will have to stay late. Only the super-committed teachers will volunteer to do that - and it's not a given that there w…

Didn't knew about the HTML part, which is not such a bad news, when most of the self taught programmers I knew started (real) programming it was either on a calculator or because HTML was no longer enough. Even if I don't consider HTML to be real programming, it's enough to be a first step in the rabbit hole, and we all know how deep this hole can be if you care to keep digging.

As for the outside of class hour part, as far as I know it's not 'outside class hour' literally but more reserved hours for non standard class activities ( back in my time that's were I was first taught English which was not a 'standard' class ). Besides, in primary school you only have one teacher, which means most of them will not be half decent at teaching CS, relying on volunteering teachers and/or parents seems like the good way to present CS to young children.

Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#24

Post by wut42 »

GuiA wrote: post #13

According to other sources, it seems like what will be taught is HTML: http://www.bafweb.com/2014/07/13/lapprentissage-du-langage-h... The posted article also points out that the classes will be "périscolaire", i.e. outside of regular class hours. This means that the teachers who teach those courses will have to stay late. Only the super-committed teachers will volunteer to do that - and it's not a given that there w…

The source about HTML can't be verified. The first blog is referring to "fdesouche" (a controversial nationalist blog), which itself refers to an article from Le Point who don't say anything about HTML.

Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#25

Post by sergiotapia »

tenfingers wrote: post #8

In Italy I had the first programming introduction at 11, using Commodore 64 and the language used for teaching was Logo. Logo had to be loaded from 5" floppy disks. Commodore 64 were already obsolete by the time, in fact at 12 (the next year), we switched to Windows, and we used something to do hypertexts instead. Needless to say, Logo was much more instructive to whatever bullshit we were using the next year (in fac…

>I got several 0 marks (which got my math grades from 10/10 down _under_ the sufficiency and required me to _repeat_ the year) for arguing with the teacher about the limits of the machine words (I went with a print-out of a ~10 pages bignum library I wrote just to disprove her). I actually got suspended for asking the school director if I could be an assistant during these classes. I only have shitty memories about these times.

See that's where you messed up and made a mistake. In school you are supposed to learn but also not a huge dick to the teacher. "Yes sir. No sir" is all you should be saying and you get along just fine. The time to rise is college, high school is just kindergarden with the occasional make out session.

Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#26

Post by w1ntermute »

aikah wrote: post #4
Furzel wrote: post #2

Quick summary : The french government wants to add non compulsory computer science in primary school ( age 6 to 10 ) where the lessons are up to the teacher. For secondary school ( age 11 to 15 ) programming will be added to the schedules, these lectures will probably be made by math and technology teachers. Personal opinion : While this is a nice step forward, I really fear the teachers will lack formation resulting…

In my opinion schools should stick to basic teaching, a high percentage of french teenagers cant even write french at the end of highschool, yet the government want pupils to learn programming ? same old french bullshit. Instead of letting schools adapt their teaching to local conditions and parameters , someone in an office in Paris is deciding for everybody. That's at the heart of France problems. When the french g…

> a high percentage of french teenagers cant even write french at the end of highschool

Maybe it's time to simplify the French language. After all, we get along just fine in English without l'imparfait du subjonctif.

Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#27

Post by antoinec »

Furzel wrote: post #23
GuiA wrote: post #13

According to other sources, it seems like what will be taught is HTML: http://www.bafweb.com/2014/07/13/lapprentissage-du-langage-h... The posted article also points out that the classes will be "périscolaire", i.e. outside of regular class hours. This means that the teachers who teach those courses will have to stay late. Only the super-committed teachers will volunteer to do that - and it's not a given that there w…

Didn't knew about the HTML part, which is not such a bad news, when most of the self taught programmers I knew started (real) programming it was either on a calculator or because HTML was no longer enough. Even if I don't consider HTML to be real programming, it's enough to be a first step in the rabbit hole, and we all know how deep this hole can be if you care to keep digging. As for the outside of class hour part,…

It's definitely not a programming language at all. But for young kids it's much more appealing to create a web page with colors and animation than a calculator in Python. And that's the goal, not make them able to program, but show them what are the possibilities.

And, on the teacher's side, it's going to be easier to teach most of them HTML rather than a real programming language.

Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#29

Post by MarcScott »

igravious wrote: post #20
LukeB_UK wrote: post #15

As of September, programming is a mandatory part of the curriculum in UK schools.

I did not know that. Go UK :) After a little digging here is an outline of the curriculum. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curricul...

Here's a better guide that teachers will be using to guide student learning.

http://community.computingatschool.org.uk/files/2466/origina...

Re: Learning “computer code” will be offered in French primary schools

#30

Post by z3t4 »

Furzel wrote: post #19
tenfingers wrote: post #8

In Italy I had the first programming introduction at 11, using Commodore 64 and the language used for teaching was Logo. Logo had to be loaded from 5" floppy disks. Commodore 64 were already obsolete by the time, in fact at 12 (the next year), we switched to Windows, and we used something to do hypertexts instead. Needless to say, Logo was much more instructive to whatever bullshit we were using the next year (in fac…

I totally get your point, when your passionate about something, as a student you need someone really good to teach you. And thus the issue when non passionate teachers ends up teaching something because they have to and not because they like it. In the end I believe the point of CS lectures at such a young age is not to actually teach people programming but more let them know that this field exist, how it basically w…

I failed PC in HS. I'm the only one who took that class that is a computer professional today. These classes only scare people away from computers. It would be far more effective teaching "hacks" and how to find information on the Internet.
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