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Too Much Power For One Man

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Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#31

Post by unclebucknasty »

nmrm wrote: post #2

Eh. This article emphasizes the wrong things. Larry Page isn't some super villain building robot armies to take over the world. Any significant harm he/Google might do to the world will likely be via the unintended consequences of actions motivated primarily by profit. We already see this -- the slow erosion of privacy expectations, etc. As for all of the internet of things/robotics acquisitions and R&D... well, I'm…

>This article emphasizes the wrong things. Larry Page isn't some super villain building robot armies to take over the world.

The article doesn't say that. The author just lays out the facts, then concludes by stating that he is not saying that Page will abuse his power, but simply that he could.

>I highly doubt that building robotic armies is on anyone's mind.

On what basis do you doubt this? Because it's unpleasant to imagine? Hard to believe?

Regardless, the point of the article (and indeed, the very title) is that we have placed a lot of power into one man's hands. Perhaps we should consider the potential consequences (intended or not), and whether simply "doubting" that this power will be abused is sufficient.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#32

Post by clamprecht »

jp555 wrote: post #10

A fitting cartoon analogy for cartoon logic. I am reminded of an Alan Moore quote: “In the mid 1980's I was asked by an american legal institution known as the Christic Legal Institute to compile a comic book that would detail the murky history of the C.I.A., from the end of the second world war, to the present day. Covering such things as the heroin smuggling during the Vietnam war, the cocaine smuggling during the…

Source?

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#34

Post by nmrm »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #31
nmrm wrote: post #2

Eh. This article emphasizes the wrong things. Larry Page isn't some super villain building robot armies to take over the world. Any significant harm he/Google might do to the world will likely be via the unintended consequences of actions motivated primarily by profit. We already see this -- the slow erosion of privacy expectations, etc. As for all of the internet of things/robotics acquisitions and R&D... well, I'm…

> This article emphasizes the wrong things. Larry Page isn't some super villain building robot armies to take over the world. The article doesn't say that. The author just lays out the facts, then concludes by stating that he is not saying that Page will abuse his power, but simply that he could . > I highly doubt that building robotic armies is on anyone's mind. On what basis do you doubt this? Because it's unpleasa…

> The author just lays out the facts, then concludes by stating that he is not saying that Page will abuse his power, but simply that he could.

Right, and I think emphasizing nutty conspiracy theories distracts from the more important systemic and gradual, but perhaps less exciting, impact that Google actually has (e.g. on privacy.)

You don't need to resort to conspiracy in order to isolate real ways in which Google has having large -- arguably negative -- impacts on our everyday lives.

> On what basis do you doubt this?

Mostly motive. Google doesn't particularly stand to benefit from building a private army. But also, I used all my tin foil heating up potatoes.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#35

Post by gadders »

themartorana wrote: post #4

With truly evil billionaires out there - the Koch brothers come to mind - and family run organizations that take horrible advantage of employees - like Walmart and the Waltons - why is it so many people want to make a case against Google and its founders? Yes, it makes sense to keep a check on powers. But I'm way more worried about all of our three-letter agencies and the private billionaire donations behind the powe…

Yeah, the Koch Brothers are evil. That George Soros, though, he's totally a force for good. The reality is that left and right all have their rich supporters, and only the truly blinkered would say one side is "evil" and the other is "good".

The Koch brothers donated hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research. Have you given as much?

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#36

Post by jonnathanson »

I'm not sure I buy into the Larry Page-as-Lex-Luthor analogy, even if it's meant to be more evocative than literally descriptive. (Page has achieved, circumstantially, what Luthor single-mindedly strove to do.) People seem to want to attribute sinister motives to Page, and while I don't know the man, all available evidence suggests he's more ambitious business tycoon than Big Brother-in-training.

I do, however, think there's something very interesting in this piece. Namely, what does it mean for someone to hold such potential power over the lives of so many? In the grand sweep of history, the amount of theoretical control over the world afforded to someone in Larry Page's position has accumulated in the blink of an eye, and it's staggering.

Technology is changing more quickly than our ability to understand its ethical, socioeconomic, and even existential implications. That doesn't mean we have to adopt the Luddite program, to be frightened of technology, and to slow its progress. We should welcome the rapid progress, and encourage technology. At the same time, perhaps we need to get a lot more serious about developing a coherent philosophy of technology, and a forward-looking technology policy. For instance: it's still a bit crackpotish to suggest we should be working on a Three Laws of Robotics in 2014, but that notion will become less outlandish in the next few years. And maybe, as Asimov subtly suggested, we're the robots who need the guidelines.

We live in very interesting times. More accurately, we're living the prologue to some very interesting times.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#37

Post by unclebucknasty »

mfisher87 wrote: post #16
themartorana wrote: post #4

With truly evil billionaires out there - the Koch brothers come to mind - and family run organizations that take horrible advantage of employees - like Walmart and the Waltons - why is it so many people want to make a case against Google and its founders? Yes, it makes sense to keep a check on powers. But I'm way more worried about all of our three-letter agencies and the private billionaire donations behind the powe…

Come on. The article specifically ends with this after setting up the scenario: >I’m not saying that Page is going to abuse his power. I am saying that he could. And that, should make us uneasy. If the old saying is true, that power corrupts, then perhaps Larry Page has too much power for one man. The point is obviously that Google has far too much power in our society, in excess of just about any other organization,…

Indeed. I just posted a similar response to another comment elsewhere on this thread.

It's ironic too that the company's motto was (is?) "Don't be Evil". Kind of a self-acknowledgment of the power they were amassing from even he earliest days. There is also a choice implicit in formulating and publicizing such a motto. That is, "we have the power and the option to be evil, but we are asking you to trust us."

Beyond that, it's a motto straight from the comic super-villain motif: A mega-company seeking powerful futuristic technology, with a grandiose and ironic PR slogan that completely contradicts its true activities.

Not saying that's Google and none of this is to say we should all be building bomb-shelters; only that the article is spot-on in tone and content.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#38

Post by tsuraan »

clamprecht wrote: post #32
jp555 wrote: post #10

A fitting cartoon analogy for cartoon logic. I am reminded of an Alan Moore quote: “In the mid 1980's I was asked by an american legal institution known as the Christic Legal Institute to compile a comic book that would detail the murky history of the C.I.A., from the end of the second world war, to the present day. Covering such things as the heroin smuggling during the Vietnam war, the cocaine smuggling during the…

Source?

Searching on "alan moore christic legal institute" brings up quite a few hits centered around a pair of graphic novels called "Brought to Light". Maybe that's it? There's a full quote on goodreads.com, but it also isn't sourced. I, too, wouldn't mind having a good source for that quote. Sounds like an interesting read.

Re: Too Much Power For One Man

#40

Post by nmrm »

maddev wrote: post #22
nmrm wrote: post #2

Eh. This article emphasizes the wrong things. Larry Page isn't some super villain building robot armies to take over the world. Any significant harm he/Google might do to the world will likely be via the unintended consequences of actions motivated primarily by profit. We already see this -- the slow erosion of privacy expectations, etc. As for all of the internet of things/robotics acquisitions and R&D... well, I'm…

> the slow erosion of privacy expectations, etc. > slow SLOW?????? More like super-sonic.

Maybe gradual would've been a more appropriate word. The point is it happened piecemeal over 15 or so years, rather than all at once.
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