New russian 8-core CPU • Hacker News Board

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#11

Post by maxaf » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:16 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #4

This is entirely hopeless - their development budget is 0.05% of that of Intel. So these will never leave drawing board to become usable product, and this is not a field rational to invest in - general purpose processors are olygopoly market with decades long learning curve worth too much. Even if someone puts hundreds of billions dollars and decades of time to become competitive, this will only diminish returns in t…

A niche product operates under a different definition of "competitive". They seem to be going for trusted computing, with a focus on security, which isn't exactly something Intel CPUs are known for.

In addition, more CPU choices will always mean more flexibility for hardware startups. Just think about how hard it is to source a CPU in sufficient quantities. A hungry manufacturer eager to gobble up market share from others might be more willing to accommodate a startup's needs.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#12

Post by listic » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:19 PM UTC

higherpurpose wrote: post #9

This is the one based on ARMv8 ISA, right? It doesn't seem to mention it there. I think that one may be from another company, though: http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/russia-arm-intel-amd-proce...

No, this one is different. T-Systems, who was making supercomputers with Intel chips, plans to make "its own" ARM-based chips. Elbrus is another, older, company that is using either SPARC or their own architecture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus_(computer) http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B1%D1%80%...

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#13

Post by ansgri » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:21 PM UTC

showkiller wrote: post #5

anovikov wrote: post #4

This is entirely hopeless - their development budget is 0.05% of that of Intel. So these will never leave drawing board to become usable product, and this is not a field rational to invest in - general purpose processors are olygopoly market with decades long learning curve worth too much. Even if someone puts hundreds of billions dollars and decades of time to become competitive, this will only diminish returns in t…

The idea of boosting national pride might be the end goal in mind. They don't need commercial success. If they want to convey the idea to the nation that we can design and build on par and maybe even better than the rest of the world. Just feeling good about yourself has benefits.

Not even that: technological independence is the goal. Some national security system may come to depend on a specific chip — which Intel will discontinue, what then? Also, the government may simply want to hide the amount of CPUs it utilizes. Impossible with foreign suppliers.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#14

Post by listic » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:22 PM UTC

showkiller wrote: post #5

anovikov wrote: post #4

This is entirely hopeless - their development budget is 0.05% of that of Intel. So these will never leave drawing board to become usable product, and this is not a field rational to invest in - general purpose processors are olygopoly market with decades long learning curve worth too much. Even if someone puts hundreds of billions dollars and decades of time to become competitive, this will only diminish returns in t…

The idea of boosting national pride might be the end goal in mind. They don't need commercial success. If they want to convey the idea to the nation that we can design and build on par and maybe even better than the rest of the world. Just feeling good about yourself has benefits.

Like sending a man on the moon, right? But that one was kinda cool, maybe this one might be, too? Anyway, don't we all agree that microprocessor space could use more diversity?

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#15

Post by tankenmate » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:44 PM UTC

fzltrp wrote: post #10

tribaal wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it is purely political. Russia wants to be independent from the US for computers, because they fear (rightfully) American chips to be bugged. Having slow, expensive chips made in Russia is probably more interesting to certain agencies than fast and cheap American chips - or relying on typewriters :)

China has a team developping a mips like architecture, with several produced iterations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson I don't know if Russia has the industry to mass produce it, but surely it has the skilled people to design it, and it may probably use foreign fabs for the remaining steps if necessary. As for the software, with an established ISA, they may quickly leverage exising open source solutions. Of…

If they are concerned about bugged hardware (which is difficult to do and expensive), I don't think "bugged" software (which is much cheaper to replace) will be on their shopping list either...

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#16

Post by cordite » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:44 PM UTC

I remember two or so years ago, Russia endorsed ReactOS.

But if they are making their own architecture, I doubt programs will transition for them if they plan to still go that route.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#17

Post by chdir » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:44 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #4

This is entirely hopeless - their development budget is 0.05% of that of Intel. So these will never leave drawing board to become usable product, and this is not a field rational to invest in - general purpose processors are olygopoly market with decades long learning curve worth too much. Even if someone puts hundreds of billions dollars and decades of time to become competitive, this will only diminish returns in t…

You are looking at it from an entirely different angle. You don't have to be Intel. Within 3-4 years you can have a neat processor comparable with current crop of mobile processors - assuming you have a good team & funding, no commercial pressure & can trust ARM.

That's the time frame it takes to setup & go to market with a mobile processor company in silicon valley.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#18

Post by ten7 » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:48 PM UTC

tribaal wrote: post #6

anovikov wrote: post #4

This is entirely hopeless - their development budget is 0.05% of that of Intel. So these will never leave drawing board to become usable product, and this is not a field rational to invest in - general purpose processors are olygopoly market with decades long learning curve worth too much. Even if someone puts hundreds of billions dollars and decades of time to become competitive, this will only diminish returns in t…

I guess it is purely political. Russia wants to be independent from the US for computers, because they fear (rightfully) American chips to be bugged. Having slow, expensive chips made in Russia is probably more interesting to certain agencies than fast and cheap American chips - or relying on typewriters :)

The Americans should probably fear bugged Russian processors too, right?

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#19

Post by buster » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:50 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #4

This is entirely hopeless - their development budget is 0.05% of that of Intel. So these will never leave drawing board to become usable product, and this is not a field rational to invest in - general purpose processors are olygopoly market with decades long learning curve worth too much. Even if someone puts hundreds of billions dollars and decades of time to become competitive, this will only diminish returns in t…

Like producing an ARM or Sparc or MIPS based design? Why would that be unimaginable? Qualcomm, AMD, Nvidia, Samsung and Co. do this. You're overestimating this and you're claiming that this processor would be new from the ground, which i don't see proof for. If it's a Sparc based design as others have claimed in this thread, it might become a slow, power-consuming processor, but it might work quite ok.

Re: New russian 8-core CPU

#20

Post by chillingeffect » Sun, Jul 13, 2014, 1:58 PM UTC

chdir wrote: post #17

anovikov wrote: post #4

This is entirely hopeless - their development budget is 0.05% of that of Intel. So these will never leave drawing board to become usable product, and this is not a field rational to invest in - general purpose processors are olygopoly market with decades long learning curve worth too much. Even if someone puts hundreds of billions dollars and decades of time to become competitive, this will only diminish returns in t…

You are looking at it from an entirely different angle. You don't have to be Intel. Within 3-4 years you can have a neat processor comparable with current crop of mobile processors - assuming you have a good team & funding, no commercial pressure & can trust ARM. That's the time frame it takes to setup & go to market with a mobile processor company in silicon valley.

Sure but if you decide to not compete with Intel and instead compete with Qualcomm, then the same story applies: 3-4 years from now Qualcomm will have the Triple Dragon Q-Zap 500+, built in Intel's foundries at ~12nm, and the Russians will have this.