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Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#31

Post by stcredzero »

Aqueous wrote: post #5
denom wrote: post #4

The "Iron Dome" will not change the current situation in a way that, say, political negotiation will. It's really frustrating to watch the same process play itself out. Throw a few more bombs in, stir the ashes (so to say) and repeat in 2 years. Is the ongoing plan to degrade the operational capacity of Hamas _just so_ that they cannot seriously threaten? Does the Iron Dome entail perpetual open warfare? It's clear t…

I think the Iron Dome is helping to effectively neutralize Hamas and reduce the number of weapons Hamas has, which may help defuse the situation, making it perhaps more possible that Hamas/Fatah coalition will see their best option is in a negotiated solution. That said, I really hope they don't launch a ground invasion - thanks to the Iron Dome it is even more asymmetrical/unnecessary than it usually is and would on…

The overall long term lesson of the events of the 20th and early 21st centuries is that economic development is worth at least several times the same effort put into weapons. (Israel as an organization obviously understands this.)

The "opposition" which is most effective results in the growth of knowledge and economic power. Knowledge and economic power can buy weapons and create game-changing technologies. The human race is still vile, primitive, and tribal, but we are slowly waking up from history. We've gotten to the point where a great many of us have figured out that war and violence have no glory and are just a really bad idea.

Worry less about borders and what it takes to have them and put effort into infrastructure, schools, hospitals, and businesses.

Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#32

Post by adamors »

noir_lord wrote: post #13
denom wrote: post #4

The "Iron Dome" will not change the current situation in a way that, say, political negotiation will. It's really frustrating to watch the same process play itself out. Throw a few more bombs in, stir the ashes (so to say) and repeat in 2 years. Is the ongoing plan to degrade the operational capacity of Hamas _just so_ that they cannot seriously threaten? Does the Iron Dome entail perpetual open warfare? It's clear t…

This is pretty close to my summation to my gf the other evening "Every few years Hamas launches rockets at Israel, Israel then uses the opportunity to smash the crap out of Hamas for a few days while "international concern" grows, at a certain point Israel stops the attacks, the international community claims a victory and Hamas gets a bloody nose, nothing changes and it all happens again in 2-3 years" I suspect some…

> Hamas gets a bloody nose

Is Hamas even a target anymore? In 4 days Operation Protective Edge took the life of 114 people, 88 of which were non combatant civilians [1]. They even managed to destroy a centre for disabled people. [2] That's a quite a big margin of error for one of the most advanced armies on the planet.

[1] http://www.sunherald.com/2014/07/11/5693711/gaza-death-toll-...

[2] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/disabled-palest...

Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#33

Post by hn_politics145 »

asadlionpk wrote: post #15
Tycho wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All they're doing is creating an excuse for Israel to move in and crush them.

what if Israel paid the other side to fire rockets at them to create the excuse of invading Gaza. How unlikely is that?

Considering that Israel pulled its citizens and troops out of Gaza in 2005 in the hopes of peace, I'd say not only is this an insane conspiracy theory but also just obviously dumb.

Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#34

Post by ibisum »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #11
mark_l_watson wrote: post #9

Wow, what an unbalanced article! No mention of casualties on the other side. Disgusting one-sided coverage. I am really disappointed in the Washington Post. Bad job. I find that Israeli news sources like Haaretz are more balanced re: the middle east than the US news is - strange. Al Jazeera is another reasonable source for middle east news. Forget about US news coverage of the middle east. As an American, I find I of…

So I agree one sided articles are generally very bad in regard to difficult situations like this. But in my opinion that is because they try to illicit sympathy for that particular side. However, in this case.. the post seemed to be about a new cool technology. Perhaps it was just me but at the end of this article I felt drawn to neither side. The only thoughts I had on the matter were, "Man that is cool. Its too bad…

>However, in this case.. the post seemed to be about a new cool technology.

So the article is little more than a straw man to divert from the real atrocities being committed by the Israelis' in Gaza today. And that is entirely the point of the OP - that this article is little more than a technocratic diversion to feed the fetish of a homogenous target group, rather than real reporting on the issue.

Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#35

Post by hn_politics145 »

adamors wrote: post #32
noir_lord wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty close to my summation to my gf the other evening "Every few years Hamas launches rockets at Israel, Israel then uses the opportunity to smash the crap out of Hamas for a few days while "international concern" grows, at a certain point Israel stops the attacks, the international community claims a victory and Hamas gets a bloody nose, nothing changes and it all happens again in 2-3 years" I suspect some…

> Hamas gets a bloody nose Is Hamas even a target anymore? In 4 days Operation Protective Edge took the life of 114 people, 88 of which were non combatant civilians [1]. They even managed to destroy a centre for disabled people. [2] That's a quite a big margin of error for one of the most advanced armies on the planet. [1] http://www.sunherald.com/2014/07/11/5693711/gaza-death-toll-... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/…

Hamas weapons are and have always been the target.

They store these weapons in houses, in mosques, in hospitals in the hopes that civilians die and then useful people like you come and post these comments.

Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#36

Post by philwelch »

adamors wrote: post #32
noir_lord wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty close to my summation to my gf the other evening "Every few years Hamas launches rockets at Israel, Israel then uses the opportunity to smash the crap out of Hamas for a few days while "international concern" grows, at a certain point Israel stops the attacks, the international community claims a victory and Hamas gets a bloody nose, nothing changes and it all happens again in 2-3 years" I suspect some…

> Hamas gets a bloody nose Is Hamas even a target anymore? In 4 days Operation Protective Edge took the life of 114 people, 88 of which were non combatant civilians [1]. They even managed to destroy a centre for disabled people. [2] That's a quite a big margin of error for one of the most advanced armies on the planet. [1] http://www.sunherald.com/2014/07/11/5693711/gaza-death-toll-... [2] http://www.theguardian.com/…

What people never mention is that they only target the sites that rockets get launched from. It's a cheap propaganda win for Hamas to launch rockets from football stadiums and hospitals.

Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#38

Post by ibisum »

asadlionpk wrote: post #15
Tycho wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All they're doing is creating an excuse for Israel to move in and crush them.

what if Israel paid the other side to fire rockets at them to create the excuse of invading Gaza. How unlikely is that?

Given that in times of war, truth is the first victim, the likelihood that black flag operatives are planted throughout the Gaza region is pretty high. There haven't been rational investigations into the Israeli claims that these rockets are fired by Hamas - the bullhorn is loud enough that people cannot believe anything else, because they don't hear it.

But Israel, of all states, is more than capable of pulling off these kinds of activities, and its been in the dirty-tricks playbook for decades (along with those of most modern governments with an Intelligence budget, to be fair).

Until we, the people - the true masses - demand a truthful process in place of propaganda and deceit, we will never know the real truth. The likelihood that these events are orchestrated by those who truly stand to profit from both sides is pretty high. There may well be a hidden third party between Palestine and Israel, intent on continuing to profit from the conflict, and those people - well funded, I might add - are very far from the visible center stage, nay the prison dock, where they belong.

Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#39

Post by hn_politics145 »

ibisum wrote: post #34
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I agree one sided articles are generally very bad in regard to difficult situations like this. But in my opinion that is because they try to illicit sympathy for that particular side. However, in this case.. the post seemed to be about a new cool technology. Perhaps it was just me but at the end of this article I felt drawn to neither side. The only thoughts I had on the matter were, "Man that is cool. Its too bad…

>However, in this case.. the post seemed to be about a new cool technology. So the article is little more than a straw man to divert from the real atrocities being committed by the Israelis' in Gaza today. And that is entirely the point of the OP - that this article is little more than a technocratic diversion to feed the fetish of a homogenous target group, rather than real reporting on the issue.

Why is everything an Israeli conspiracy?

Re: Israel’s ‘Iron Dome’ changes the face of battle

#40

Post by [deleted] »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #11
mark_l_watson wrote: post #9

Wow, what an unbalanced article! No mention of casualties on the other side. Disgusting one-sided coverage. I am really disappointed in the Washington Post. Bad job. I find that Israeli news sources like Haaretz are more balanced re: the middle east than the US news is - strange. Al Jazeera is another reasonable source for middle east news. Forget about US news coverage of the middle east. As an American, I find I of…

So I agree one sided articles are generally very bad in regard to difficult situations like this. But in my opinion that is because they try to illicit sympathy for that particular side. However, in this case.. the post seemed to be about a new cool technology. Perhaps it was just me but at the end of this article I felt drawn to neither side. The only thoughts I had on the matter were, "Man that is cool. Its too bad…

[deleted]
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