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William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

theguardian.com

91–100 of 135 posts

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#91
There have been at least 15-20 trillion constitutional violations

It is an amusing, even throwaway line, but it has a horrific message - the US administration is happy to sail so close to the line of totalitarianism that it will possibly violate the constitution a trillion times. In the UK we jus found out similar legislation is unconstitutional and we are hurriedly writing another law to get round it. _sigh_

What happens when a country that really cares about it's constitution has to rush an amendment through or face civil rights violations from everyone?

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#92

The story in the Guardian by Antony Loewenstein certainly reports that William Binney's personal opinion as a former employee of NSA is that NSA is gathering up and recording whatever it can and that NSA has a "totalitarian mentality." That is a very important issue, if true, but it is at least debatable that NSA is really that thorough in its actual practices and really that generally blatant in disregarding the civ…

Whether or not the data is analyzed in a timely manner is irrelevant to its' legality or morality (speaking solely on spying within the US.) One would assume that both competent terrorists and Russia have had proper NSA counter measures in place far before Snowden's leak. Indeed, bin Laden was able to remain hidden for a very long time. What we have seen is plenty of stories of dumb Westerners attempting to become jihadists.

NSA blackmail is far fetched. Of immediate concern is NSA employees inappropriately spying on other Americans. This has already happened multiple times that we know about: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-23/nsa-analysts-intent... Lapses at the companies which conduct bulk top secret clearance checks should only raise more alarms.

The most recent doc leak demonstrates that not only was a contractor such as Snowden capable of searching and extracting data but it was done so without the NSA having any idea. No paper trail. How did someone get certain information on you or did they? No one knows. Blackmail hardly necessary if politically charged attacks reap large rewards by crippling a citizen running for office or an attorney general investigating a corrupt corporation. Anyone could be targeted: a sitting congressman, someone running for office, a federal judge, friends, children, family. Conducted in a veil of secrecy with secret oversight guarded by a national security mandate leaves no accountability: a total abandonment of America's foundation of checks and balances.

In the longer term, this behavior is more grim than that posed by a rogue individual such as Snowden. If the existence of the NSA and its spying on Americans is fundamental to national security anyone who opposes this behavior is as big of a threat as a bin Laden. It becomes appropriate to target not only Americans but also sitting government officials who pose a threat. Congress's muted reactions could leave one to believe this is already the reality. At the least, the fear is there.

Integrity and values are shallow and attach only individually to a mortal man. If an institution or government is built without transparency and without a balance of power, eventually, at some time bad people will gain control. They may be intentionally bad, seeking nefarious and self-motivated gain, or it may be unintentional: simply an absence of knowledge in a certain area which produces disastrous decision making. The Catholic church abuse scandals presented a mixture of both. Because the institution was deeply opaque and without proper checks and balances, widespread failure occurred. Even lives devoted to continuous moral contemplations, recitations and displays of charity could make up for this.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#93
post #6

"At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US. This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores." I think he meant that the NSA had access to the 80% of calls that are routed through the US, not the the NSA is recording and storing literally every single one o…

Very probably yes. GCHQ's retention goes back (very broadly) that far (it's inconsistent) - and they have some access to each other's networks (the NSA access GCHQ's network via example.gchq.nsa.ic.gov, specifically, so for example https://wiki.gchq.nsa.ic.gov/index.php would get you to GCHQ's internal MediaWiki if you're on the NSA network - GCHQ use an internal .gchq TLD). They can query selectors on each other's databases, and filtering of what's "not allowed" seems to be very often up to the analyst. (Of course, I don't know if they share everything. Probably not.)

The NSA's own BLARNEY initiative for this stuff dates back to 1978, although I think GCHQ beat them to the punch in effective mass telephony intercept - the first one I'm aware of started in the early 1980s, although that is offline, and probably no longer archived as the media (digital tape with low-bitrate encoded audio) would probably have degraded beyond all usefulness by now (and it sounded pretty crunchy in the first place, I understand, kinda like a bad squelchy lower-side-band transmission!).

Remember, however, that they didn't have the same kind of analysis capability back then that they've got these days (but they can probably go back and analyse old stuff they still retain). As Snowden's disclosed, you're seeing the newer systems having full-take ring buffers in nearline storage, followed by offline selection for recent access and analysis from that using a huge amount of distributed processing, and in turn automatic selected archiving out of that. It's pretty much the difference between microfiche and Google in effectiveness.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#94
post #87
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what would it take to record the whole US? One version says that we make ~5 calls a day on our phones [1] and ownership hovers at 80-90% of the 18+ population (and probably a bunch younger). The US is 311 million, lets say 80% of 300 million, so 240 million people making 5 calls / day. The average call length is 1.8 minutes right now [2]. So we've got 240 mil person * 5 calls / person-day * 365 days * 1.8 min /…

Standard POTS audio is a single 3.4kHz bandwidth channel. Compressing VOIP codecs allow a wider range, but still sound great at 12kb/s. So without any non-COTS tech and without sacrificing the lilt of grandma's sparkly voice, we're already at a 90% reduction of your numbers. So let's go with 190 TB/day. Say we keep 30 days in hot disk storage, and spool it off to a digital tape robot afterward. We'd need a few thousa…

[deleted]

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#95
post #6

"At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US. This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores." I think he meant that the NSA had access to the 80% of calls that are routed through the US, not the the NSA is recording and storing literally every single one o…

I have no idea what the NSA stores, but it's certainly feasible to store all the audio calls if they want to, and the new data center they're building has far more capacity than they would need:

http://blog.archive.org/2013/06/15/cost-to-store-all-us-phon...

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#96

The story in the Guardian by Antony Loewenstein certainly reports that William Binney's personal opinion as a former employee of NSA is that NSA is gathering up and recording whatever it can and that NSA has a "totalitarian mentality." That is a very important issue, if true, but it is at least debatable that NSA is really that thorough in its actual practices and really that generally blatant in disregarding the civ…

You can collect lots of data without finding the terrorists, because to find the terrorists you have to do a good job analyzing all that data. But even if you're not doing good analysis, you can still keep the data in your back pocket to target anyone you wish.

As to whether scandals are effective, one counterexample is Eliot Spitzer.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#97

The story in the Guardian by Antony Loewenstein certainly reports that William Binney's personal opinion as a former employee of NSA is that NSA is gathering up and recording whatever it can and that NSA has a "totalitarian mentality." That is a very important issue, if true, but it is at least debatable that NSA is really that thorough in its actual practices and really that generally blatant in disregarding the civ…

1) It doesn't require a revelation to be career ending for the person involved to be believe it could be damaging (and therefore be susceptible to blackmail). 2) It doesn't require all politicians to be be lack personal integrity and give way to blackmail, even a few can tip a balance. 3) Selective/distorted leaking could also tip the balance in places as to who gets elected. 4) Calls could be monitored to take advan…

Indeed. CIA director lost his job when the FBI spied on his mistress' email account. No.2 Admiral of Strategic Command lost his position too for some gambling scandal. Certainly possible to coerce or blackmail other positions of power that are unelected. Not everybody is shameless like Anthony Weiner

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#98
post #4

“The ultimate goal of the NSA is total population control” Scary shit...

So that they can do what, exactly? Once they get total population control what kind of stuff will they be able to do that they couldn't do before?

Make the world a better, safer place, as seen through the lens of the U.S. elite.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#99
post #51
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't politicize civil liberties. If progressives and libertarians can come together on anything, it's this.

“All cats are libertarians. Completely dependent on others but fully convinced of their own independence.”

Good joke, but sort of backfires!

Aren't cats notoriously good at surviving in the wild? Both feral and domestic cats (if they have to).

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#100
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can compress human speech while maintaining intelligibility much tighter than 128 kbps. And did you seriously make a link to cite that 128 kb * 60 = 0.94 MB?

No, he made a link to cite that 128 kb * 60 / 8 = 0.94 MB

128 kb = 16 kB.
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