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William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

theguardian.com

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Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#21

Post by josefresco »

sp332 wrote: post #13
theg2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't ask for sources. Otherwise it's just blind fear mongering.

Well, Binney was an NSA employee and is now on the record saying that their goal is population control. That is a source.

He was an (important) employee but did not speak for, or set the NSA agenda. He's also disgruntled. This makes the quality of the source less than ideal. Now if he had some sort of memo or recording that would change the source, and could provide more credibility.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#22

Post by timdiggerm »

sp332 wrote: post #13
theg2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't ask for sources. Otherwise it's just blind fear mongering.

Well, Binney was an NSA employee and is now on the record saying that their goal is population control. That is a source.

Although that's true, I consider anything he says about the NSA's current activities and goals increasingly inaccurate the longer he's not there.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#23

Post by [deleted] »

fit2rule wrote: post #14
eli wrote: post #6

"At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US. This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores." I think he meant that the NSA had access to the 80% of calls that are routed through the US, not the the NSA is recording and storing literally every single one o…

No: the NSA is recording at least 80% of all calls and will, towards the end of the year, have the capacity to record 100%.

[deleted]

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#24

Post by eli »

muaddirac wrote: post #8
eli wrote: post #6

"At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US. This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores." I think he meant that the NSA had access to the 80% of calls that are routed through the US, not the the NSA is recording and storing literally every single one o…

"At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US." It definitely seems like he meant that 80% of calls are recorded and stored. Whether that's true or not will (hopefully) come out in time.

Sure, if you read just that sentence. If you read just the one before it, it definitely seems like he meant the US has visibility into 80% of calls.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#25

Post by Someone1234 »

fit2rule wrote: post #14
eli wrote: post #6

"At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US. This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores." I think he meant that the NSA had access to the 80% of calls that are routed through the US, not the the NSA is recording and storing literally every single one o…

No: the NSA is recording at least 80% of all calls and will, towards the end of the year, have the capacity to record 100%.

You're assuming that the 20% drop off is due to capacity. That isn't my understanding of the current situation.

The Utah facility gives them the ability to store calls for longer, it doesn't increase their scope.

The reason they don't record 20% of calls is, from my understanding, that they have internal rules against recording certain people important to the democratic process within the US (e.g. politicians (and their families), judges, election officials, etc).

Essentially the politicians were concerned that the NSA's resources would be utilised by whichever party was in office to gain an advantage, so they put themselves (both parties) onto a "no spy" list. But you won't find the law where it says that, because it is all internal-rules created by committee behind closed doors.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#26

Post by rolux »

opendais wrote: post #18
r0h1n wrote: post #11

We're staring at the gradual but deliberate end of privacy and its scary. The large majority of the world's population either doesn't know or care how significant or dangerous this trend is, and those few who do will find their way into surveillance databases because they act "suspiciously" by encrypting their communications and guarding their privacy. I don't see a powerful enough counterforce against this insidious…

More or less, yes. However, the danger is really only to people outside the safe herd majority who might draw the wrong sort of attention. So I don't see it being a huge danger. However, I don't think it'll ever devolve to the point where mass arrests or anything truly draconian takes place. There isn't any need in Democracy. You need to only control 51% of the engaged voters [e.g. the people who actually vote] and a…

> However, the danger is really only to people outside the safe herd majority who might draw the wrong sort of attention. So I don't see it being a huge danger.

Unfortunately, you're wrong here. The first trivial counterexample that comes to mind: You cannot have a democratic society if a government agency secretly records the phone calls of all (current and prospective) political representatives.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#27

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

narrator wrote: post #17
drcode wrote: post #4

“The ultimate goal of the NSA is total population control” Scary shit...

So that they can do what, exactly? Once they get total population control what kind of stuff will they be able to do that they couldn't do before?

Brave New World, basically.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#28

Post by mandalar12 »

opendais wrote: post #18
r0h1n wrote: post #11

We're staring at the gradual but deliberate end of privacy and its scary. The large majority of the world's population either doesn't know or care how significant or dangerous this trend is, and those few who do will find their way into surveillance databases because they act "suspiciously" by encrypting their communications and guarding their privacy. I don't see a powerful enough counterforce against this insidious…

More or less, yes. However, the danger is really only to people outside the safe herd majority who might draw the wrong sort of attention. So I don't see it being a huge danger. However, I don't think it'll ever devolve to the point where mass arrests or anything truly draconian takes place. There isn't any need in Democracy. You need to only control 51% of the engaged voters [e.g. the people who actually vote] and a…

Problem is the next governments will inherit the surveillance system. Who says they won't be fascists and/or turn the country into dictatorship ? When this happens, we might see these mass arrests. A lot can change in only a few decades.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#29

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

timdiggerm wrote: post #22
sp332 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Binney was an NSA employee and is now on the record saying that their goal is population control. That is a source.

Although that's true, I consider anything he says about the NSA's current activities and goals increasingly inaccurate the longer he's not there.

I think it is fair to say that the NSA's activities and goals have not become "better" (from the perspective of civil liberties) since 2001.

Re: William Binney: 80% of audio calls are recorded and stored in the US

#30

Post by opendais »

rolux wrote: post #26
opendais wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More or less, yes. However, the danger is really only to people outside the safe herd majority who might draw the wrong sort of attention. So I don't see it being a huge danger. However, I don't think it'll ever devolve to the point where mass arrests or anything truly draconian takes place. There isn't any need in Democracy. You need to only control 51% of the engaged voters [e.g. the people who actually vote] and a…

> However, the danger is really only to people outside the safe herd majority who might draw the wrong sort of attention. So I don't see it being a huge danger. Unfortunately, you're wrong here. The first trivial counterexample that comes to mind: You cannot have a democratic society if a government agency secretly records the phone calls of all (current and prospective) political representatives.

Your trivial counterexample requires blackmail on a large scale. The problem with blackmail is it might work 75% of the time, but the other 25% end up in jail.

In the case of a politician, from time to time, one of them would say "fuck it" and use their platform to say it to the world.

The subtler approach would be to take dirt on Candidate A and give it to Candidate B so B could win the election. However, in the real world, slinging real mud is just as effective as slinging fake mud in an election. [e.g. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth had no actual evidence of their allegations and the majority of Kerry's unit said they were lying...but it still had a major effect on the election anyway] Tbh, the fake mud may be even more effective since you can create the best political narrative you can without being constrained by verifiable facts.

So I'm really not that convinced that the costs of such political meddling [clearly exposed villainy that may force politicians to take action against the Security Apparatus or get voted out of office] is not cost effective. It is far, far more likely that the Security Services would simply behave themselves and make it clear that they wanted a large budget and virtually unlimited powers. They pretty much are at that point already.

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