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Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#31

Post by hooya »

If you've been able to keep up with others solely with the know-how you've picked up on your own in terms of software development, then great; my advice: take as many non-CS classes as possible. After you graduate, you'll spend all of your time in CS - constantly learning. But you'll rarely get a chance to learn anything else. College is where you do it.

Really, I see college as a way to learn how to learn. You've done that with CS, it seems. Now learn how to learn in other areas. You'll probably never get another chance.

During college I hated having to take any non CS class. In hindsight, I'm really glad I had to.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#32

Post by yen223 »

Ologn wrote: post #16
xiaoma wrote: post #14

I believe the CS degree is one of the least useful degrees there is. The two things most people get from a degree are the knowledge and the credential. The material in a CS degree is pretty accessible for self study compared to that of some other majors. No expensive materials are required beyond a $500 computer. Instructors don't generally spend time with you while you are actually programming, so you won't be missi…

>The material in a CS degree is pretty accessible for self study Whether or not it is, I have yet to meet anyone who has done self study who has studied theory of computation, mutual exclusion, and that sort of stuff, month on end, like CS students do. Everyone seems to go straight to what is immediately useful, like the syntax of Objective C and so forth. Also, the big technological leap allowing this was the Gutenb…

I'm a 'self-learner' (graduated with a non-CS degree) who went through the Machine Learning course on Coursera, which inspired me to pursue my Master's in Computer Science

You are right about self-learners avoiding heavy academic subjects. The huge problem with self-learning is that I had a moron for a teacher. There's just too many unknown unknowns - I didn't know what I was missing out on.

Oh, and the credential helps too. Immigration departments don't look at Github profiles :)

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#34

Post by ashleyt »

sportanova wrote: post #30
com2kid wrote: post #18

> Recently I was choosing my courses for second year and became discouraged at the electives required to continue in the computer science program. I'm forced to take things that don't interest me like psychology, basic marketing, etc. This made me question whether it is even worth spending the money to get a degree when half of the work that I put in won't even be relating to my field. Well now it depends. Do you wan…

You're making the assumption that psychology classes teach you how people think, and that marketing classes teach you how to generate sales - they don't. If he was still interested, he could just buy the textbooks, or more likely, get similar resources for free online.

Learning from a textbook about psychology is not the same as having discussions, generating ideas, learning from others and teaching others. Just my opinion though :).

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#35

Post by ciaranm »

xiaoma wrote: post #14

I believe the CS degree is one of the least useful degrees there is. The two things most people get from a degree are the knowledge and the credential. The material in a CS degree is pretty accessible for self study compared to that of some other majors. No expensive materials are required beyond a $500 computer. Instructors don't generally spend time with you while you are actually programming, so you won't be missi…

>Instructors don't generally spend time with you while you are actually programming, so you won't be missing the kind of 1 on 1 feedback a music major would get.

Really? That wasn't my experience at University at all. Every practical assignment had at least one lab session, where usually both the lecturer of the module, and some more senior students (final year undergrads for 1st/2nd year classes, typically PhD students for 3rd, 4th year classes) to help with implementation. We got feedback on every piece of code we ever wrote.

>Tons of my friends work at YC companies with either unrelated degrees or none at all.

That's great. How many jobs are the YC companies contributing? I'm sure they're (mostly)all amazing places to work, but there's plenty of jobs you wont even be picked up from the pile of CVs if you haven't done a degree. You might not like HR departments, but most companies have them, and it's generally not a good move to alienate them if you don't need to.

>Unlike a lot of posters here I really don't see anything wrong with not getting the degree.

I think it's important that I reply to this point, just so you don't misunderstand me. I don't think there's anything _wrong_ with not getting a degree - I have plenty of friends who either didn't finish or didn't attend University, and many of them are in good jobs (some of them in tech). That said, it's important OP knows what you _do_ get by having a degree - and I'd strongly disagree with your statement about it being one of the least useful degrees.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#36

Post by ciaranm »

yen223 wrote: post #32
Ologn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The material in a CS degree is pretty accessible for self study Whether or not it is, I have yet to meet anyone who has done self study who has studied theory of computation, mutual exclusion, and that sort of stuff, month on end, like CS students do. Everyone seems to go straight to what is immediately useful, like the syntax of Objective C and so forth. Also, the big technological leap allowing this was the Gutenb…

I'm a 'self-learner' (graduated with a non-CS degree) who went through the Machine Learning course on Coursera, which inspired me to pursue my Master's in Computer Science You are right about self-learners avoiding heavy academic subjects. The huge problem with self-learning is that I had a moron for a teacher. There's just too many unknown unknowns - I didn't know what I was missing out on. Oh, and the credential he…

> Immigration departments don't look at Github profiles :)

That's a fantastic point, and one which has probably been overlooked so far in this thread. Yes, it's entirely possible you'll be able to find a great job/company in your home country, but good luck getting a skilled workers visa in any major country without having 'professional' level qualifications.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#37

Post by junto »

I believe that my CS degree was worthless to me. I learnt nothing. Everything I know is self-taught, either pre-university or post-university. I kid you not.

However, and here is the kicker; My degree is NOT worthless to the multiple employers I have had. Of course it was worthless in reality, but those letters after my name helped.

Stupid, but a fact of life.

I recommend you finish the degree, but do the stuff you love alongside. To be honest, the fact that you are enjoying your programming gigs is a great thing.

Going to university is similar to going to school, except nobody bugs you anymore about doing work. You have to play smart within the system, whilst abusing it to your own benefit within the confines of the rules that you can manage to bend without breaking them. Know your Rubicon.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#38

Post by brianchu »

Firstly, what's you financial situation? Are you paying for college, do you have a scholarship, etc.?

I think anyone can make it without a degree given sufficient motivation. I'm doing a degree because I recognize I don't have the motivation to teach myself certain areas of "hard" math, statistics, and theoretical CS. Yet I recognize that these topics will be useful. All of these topics can be learned through MOOCs/MIT OCW today (given sufficient motivation).

An alternative you could consider is to try transferring to a top CS school like MIT/Berkeley/CMU/Stanford/UIUC, or to another all-around top school. You may find that you'll be seriously challenged and stretched at those schools (or maybe not). This depends on your financial situation, though.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#39

Post by xiaoma »

ciaranm wrote: post #35
xiaoma wrote: post #14

I believe the CS degree is one of the least useful degrees there is. The two things most people get from a degree are the knowledge and the credential. The material in a CS degree is pretty accessible for self study compared to that of some other majors. No expensive materials are required beyond a $500 computer. Instructors don't generally spend time with you while you are actually programming, so you won't be missi…

>Instructors don't generally spend time with you while you are actually programming, so you won't be missing the kind of 1 on 1 feedback a music major would get. Really? That wasn't my experience at University at all. Every practical assignment had at least one lab session, where usually both the lecturer of the module, and some more senior students (final year undergrads for 1st/2nd year classes, typically PhD stude…

Yes, really. By "spending time with you while you're actually programming", I meant instructors literally being right by you correcting mistakes and giving feedback in real time. This kind of feedback isn't uncommon in music programs but is very uncommon in engineering programs.

Did your instructors or TAs pair program with you? If so, what school were you at? I would consider it to be a very positive indicator of your program.

>We got feedback on every piece of code we ever wrote.

Sure, but asynchronous feedback on code certainly isn't something that can only be had at a university. Every bit of code I wrote while on the merchant engineering team at Groupon was reviewed by at least two people and the same is true of most my open source contributions.

>How many jobs are the YC companies contributing? I'm sure they're (mostly)all amazing places to work, but there's plenty of jobs you wont even be picked up from the pile of CVs if you haven't done a degree.

That may be true of many places, but at I can claim with certainty that FB and Google will both give interviews and even recruit engineers without CS degrees. It wouldn't surprise me if it were the least appealing jobs that most strictly adhere to credential-based hiring decisions.

FWIW, I used to run an HR effort at a tech start-up before I became an engineer myself, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with how they operate.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#40

Post by ciaranm »

xiaoma wrote: post #39
ciaranm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instructors don't generally spend time with you while you are actually programming, so you won't be missing the kind of 1 on 1 feedback a music major would get. Really? That wasn't my experience at University at all. Every practical assignment had at least one lab session, where usually both the lecturer of the module, and some more senior students (final year undergrads for 1st/2nd year classes, typically PhD stude…

Yes, really. By "spending time with you while you're actually programming", I meant instructors literally being right by you correcting mistakes and giving feedback in real time. This kind of feedback isn't uncommon in music programs but is very uncommon in engineering programs. Did your instructors or TAs pair program with you? If so, what school were you at? I would consider it to be a very positive indicator of yo…

> Did your instructors or TAs pair program with you? If so, what school were you at?

Yes! As with many things in life, you get back what you put in. There were plenty of TAs and Lecturers who would happily sit and work through a problem or alternate solution with you. The key factor was them knowing you weren't just trying to avoid doing it yourself.

> Sure, but asynchronous feedback on code certainly isn't something that can only be had at a university.

The point you made originally was alluded to that this sort of thing not happening at Universities. I was simply using my personal experiences to assert that, in my case at least, it did.

For what it's worth, I went to University in Glasgow - the University of Strathclyde.

> That may be true of many places, but at I can claim with certainty that FB and Google will both give interviews and even recruit engineers without CS degrees.

I'm sure they do, and I know the company I work for does as well, but I also know the people who don't have a formally educated background tend to get grilled harder on CS theory than those who do. Having a degree in CS is not a useless thing.

The point here of course, is whether it's right for the OP (:

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