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Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

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Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#221

Post by Anechoic »

tzs wrote: post #163
ddlatham wrote: post #83

Most striking are the race differences revealed in the study, Brame says. In particular, the research points to a higher prevalence of arrest among black males and little race variation in arrest rates among females. ... By age 23, 49 percent of black males, 44 percent of Hispanic males and 38 percent of white males have been arrested. ... By age 23, arrest rates were 20 percent for white females and 18 percent and 1…

Black males are disproportionately represented among those in poverty or with low income compared to white males. If the police completely ignored race, we would expect black males to be arrested at a higher rate than white males. The most troubling possibility that the black male vs white male rate suggests to me is that police might not be taking black victims as seriously as white victims. Blacks die by homicide a…

Black males are disproportionately represented among those in poverty or with low income compared to white males. If the police completely ignored race, we would expect black males to be arrested at a higher rate than white males.

When is comes to violent crime, yes. However violent crime arrests make up a relatively small amount of arrests (about 8% of arrests according to my accounting, including arson [0]). Drug related arrests make up 12% of arrests, that's an area where whites and blacks are known to use use and sell at about the same rates [1] but blacks are arrested at higher rates. I'm not sure about the other classes of crimes (burglary, fraud, disorderly conduct, etc), but I suspect those are highly dependent on local conditions.

[0] http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/c...

[1] http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/study-whites-more-like... - this is link to a mainstream media summary, the data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health for various years goes into more detail, I just don't have time to look it up right now.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#222

Post by opendais »

chc wrote: post #182
opendais wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ya, stuff like that is why we need a right to be forgotten in the US. People tend to see an arrest and leap to conclusions. I say this as a person who has never been arrested. :/ > Anything that might make someone unemployable that didn't result in a conviction or other defeat in court. > The topic is arrests. The fact you never shower is not going to get you arrested. I guess to me the pattern was obvious but I ac…

OK, just so I'm clear, which is it: Is the topic limited to arrests and court cases or is it just related to arrests and court cases? You seem to object to my comment on the former grounds ("the topic is arrests"), but you have not been restricting your statements to those topics. I find this a bit frustrating, because you keep making broad statements, but object to commentary that is equally broad.

I reject your comment on the fact its groundless and in no way related to arrests being published by the media.

I'm not sure how I can be any clearer. If it isn't directly related to arrests by a single degree, it isn't on topic imo.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#223

Post by opendais »

PeterisP wrote: post #213
opendais wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, stuff like that is why we need a right to be forgotten in the US. People tend to see an arrest and leap to conclusions. I say this as a person who has never been arrested. :/

This example doesn't need a right to be forgotten, it needs a right to not be noted in the first place. For arrests w/o conviction, the person has done nothing that would justify a violation of his privacy - what right or excuse could there be to allow the police to publish their names or other personally identifiable info in the first place? Especially for minors (as for the curfew issues)? You need to keep the priv…

I think the problem here is the 1st amendment trumps your right to privacy in the US when it comes to matters of public record. I'm not sure I want that to change because people do have a right to know if a legal issue is in process, they just don't have the right to be prejudiced if you are found innocent/released without a guilty verdict.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#224

Post by steveklabnik »

vidarh wrote: post #201
tedunangst wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, that's a little weird. I got a ticket once for cutting through a park after dark. I would never have considered that being arrested, but hurray, today I learned I'm part of the 40%. I have also received a ticket for speeding, which all things considered, was a more serious offense/penalty. It's weird that the speeding ticket is excluded but not the walking ticket.

To me the more bizarre thing is that there is such a thing as getting a ticket for walking through a park after dark. WTF...

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/san-francisco-parks-c...

:/

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#225

Post by opendais »

nostrademons wrote: post #200
jerf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "right to be forgotten" is just a societal mechanism for enforcing forgiveness, since we lack any other way to enforce or even particularly suggest forgiveness as a society [1]. Humans are not wired for the proper amounts of forgiveness in a digital world. (One can debate how correctly wired they are under other circumstances, but I feel pretty confident that our thresholds aren't even close to right for a digita…

I think the problem is ultimately self-correcting as judgmental people start losing out on opportunities. When Facebook first came out, most of the older generation put out dire warnings about losing jobs because of that drunken party pic you put up. That happens, but now if you start disqualifying every candidate who ever put something embarrassing up on the Internet, you won't have a very large applicant pool. Cue…

In the long run, the problem is self correcting.

However, if someone finds themselves unable to get a job in their local area [e.g. Small Town USA where you might only have 1 employer of a given type in some cases] and is forced to move to find a more tolerant employer...that is a burden we shouldn't reasonably expect people to suffer due to a cautious police officer who wanted to play it safe and arrest someone.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#226

Post by foobarian »

Steer wrote: post #139
ddlatham wrote: post #83

Most striking are the race differences revealed in the study, Brame says. In particular, the research points to a higher prevalence of arrest among black males and little race variation in arrest rates among females. ... By age 23, 49 percent of black males, 44 percent of Hispanic males and 38 percent of white males have been arrested. ... By age 23, arrest rates were 20 percent for white females and 18 percent and 1…

Strange, but coming from an European background while taking in a lot of American culture, I was (pleasantly, I guess) surprised that the discrepancy between white and black males wasn't larger. I am more or less shocked about he percentages overall, but really thought the gap was much larger. Sorry if this doesn't add anything substantial, but I honestly would have have guessed that it was about 3 times more black m…

I had the same reaction, and even though I have an European background I don't think it has anything to do with it.

There must be another divide in play there in addition to racial. Small town vs big city? Poor vs. rich? Cold vs. warm climate? Those percentages seem incredibly high, and looking at the circle of people I know, I would never have guessed it that high. It could be that people just don't talk about their criminal records but it's still not 1 in 5.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#227

Post by opendais »

Crito wrote: post #158
opendais wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, being acquitted is meaningless to you and should negatively impact future employment. Noted.

Forget acquitted, what if charges are never brought in the first place? Should the Nixons of this world have a right to be forgotten?

For the majority of people? Yes.

If you aren't able to get the person in a court of law and win, you shouldn't be able to prejudice their ability to make a living.

EU excludes public figures [I'm not sure exactly how its written].

It isn't like people are magically going to forget nationwide media coverage of someone like Nixon and his "I am not a crook speech". We still remember it decades later. I think I'd rather err on the side of protecting the poor and weakest members of society that probably can't get someone to take a libel case on their behalf for $$ than punish every guilty person "who got away with it".

For every Nixon, there are dozens if not hundreds of people with arrest records published on the internet that never went to trial.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#228

Post by wutbrodo »

giberson wrote: post #105

Laws in the US are far too strict. I am one of the people that are covered by this statistic, I was arrested around age 16. For curfew. Curfew, the law that says you can't be outside after an arbitrarily dictated time. Absolutely ridiculous. For what it is worth--my record has been "expunged" and this arrest has not affected my adult life at all.

Would something like that be included in "arrest" statistics? My experience with running afoul of curfew was basically akin to getting a ticket (I believe it was a misdemeanor, not a ticketable offense, but I mean there was nothing resembling an arrest going on).

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#229

Post by adaml_623 »

GeorgeBeech wrote: post #127
petercooper wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not as important as having a job, etc, it could possibly affect overseas travel. Someone couldn't travel with us from the UK to our wedding in the US as we learnt that anyone who's been arrested for any reason can't travel under the visa waiver program (they can apply for a visa though but that takes time, money, and an interview). And as far as I understand it, US VWP treaties operate on similar principles in…

Eh? The law only talks about convictions not arrests. You need to qualify for a Business or Tourism visa to be able to use the VWP. (source: http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/general/inelig... ) Sounds like your friend got screwed by an over zealous bureaucrat.

Sounds like he read the question asked when you go here: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/ and apply for the visa waiver. And he didn't feel like forking out for plane flights just to be turned back at the border.

"B) Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or have been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or have been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?"

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#230

Post by kazinator »

skittles wrote: post #193
barrkel wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curfews? That sounds like something out of a police state. I did not know the US had curfew laws.

The U.S. is overly protective of children and young adults. We can't drink alcohol until 21 and many cities have curfew laws for kids up to the age of 16 or so. My city has a curfew for those 16 and under. They can't be out after 11 pm during the week and after 12:30 am on weekends.

"Teens cannot be out after 11 pm" is more about protecting the neighborhood from teens.
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