Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23 • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#131

Post by anigbrowl » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:37 PM UTC

jychang wrote: post #43

pertinhower wrote: post #19

I find this frankly implausible. What percentage of people you know have been arrested? I'm guessing very small (even assuming that many hide it and so you're knowledge is substantially skewed). So maybe that's because of your high/squeaky-clean socio-economic class? No: imagine yourself in any class you care to. Unless that class is much, much larger than your "real" class, then it would have to have an astronomical…

Not implausible at all. I'm probably in the squeaky clean category. On a day of a meteor shower, I went with some friends to take pictures of the sky. A park ranger arrested us, for being in a national park after dark. After arresting us, he spent 5 mins talking on the radio with some other ranger, then spent 5 mins writing a citation. Paid it in the mail a few weeks later, never heard of it again. It doesn't take mu…

Are you sure you were arrested? It sounds like you were not actually placed into custody, eg cuffed and in the back of a police car. You may have been detained rather than arrested, not withstanding the issuance of a ticket.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#132

Post by nmrm » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:38 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #22

The high school graduation rate in the US's big cities floats around 50-60%. The way I see it about half the kids growing up don't become white collar over-educated cubicle jockeys. I imagine these two groups strongly overlap. You can get a trade job with a endless arrests or even a conviction.

Wow. Most trade jobs require at least a high school diploma; many require some additional training (not necessarily an associates degree, but often a certificate of some sort, and enrollment in those courses requires a diploma).

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#133

Post by head_stomp » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:38 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #67

jychang wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not implausible at all. I'm probably in the squeaky clean category. On a day of a meteor shower, I went with some friends to take pictures of the sky. A park ranger arrested us, for being in a national park after dark. After arresting us, he spent 5 mins talking on the radio with some other ranger, then spent 5 mins writing a citation. Paid it in the mail a few weeks later, never heard of it again. It doesn't take mu…

Did he arrest you or give you a citation?

Receiving a citation is a non-custodial arrest.

edit just to make it clear: This is not my opinion. This is the legal definition. The study includes citations as arrests. This is why they make sure to point out that they do not include minor traffic offenses.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#134

Post by watwut » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:39 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #54

Sounds bad, but assuming an arrest under 23 can happen any time between the ages of, say, 7 and 22, that's actually 2.7% in any given year, or roughly 1 in every 40 male children. It almost certainly points to police officers arresting children en masse in order to discover the real perpetrator rather than any child criminality epidemic.

"Sounds bad, but [...] It almost certainly points to police officers arresting children en masse in order to discover the real perpetrator"

... seems to me like a horrible counterproductive thing.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#135

Post by knodi123 » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:40 PM UTC

Steer wrote: post #106

[deleted] wrote: post #99

[deleted]

Sorry if I misunderstand your point, but are you saying that the US is a police state because they wouldn't allow you to drive drunk (endangering other people) or with a gun in your car? I think it is a good thing that it hasn't hurt your ability to get employment since these things are not related, but I still don't understand the police state connection. What changes are you proposing? That everyone should be able…

At least regarding the "loaded gun" incident - there's a much better choice besides "arrest him" and "ignore it". How about a fine?

Arrests should be limited to just the people who are a flight or safety risk.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#136

Post by delluminatus » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:40 PM UTC

agwa wrote: post #71

EpicEng wrote: post #58

I think that this trend, at least in part, has been influenced by a change in the way that we treat adolescent crime. For example, even when I was a kid (early 90's) you would not get arrested for getting into a fist fight at school. Nowadays, bam; call the cops. Get caught with some pot? Arrested. Get caught performing some petty vandalization? Arrested. Get caught at a party drinking as a minor? Arrested. We arrest…

This has been dubbed the "school-to-prison pipeline." It's exacerbated by the fact that many schools now have police officers permanently stationed at the school, which leads to a "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" problem. It also contributes to the racial disparity because predominantly black schools are more likely to have a police officer than predominantly white schools.

Exacerbated, not exasperated. :) You were close though, they only have a Levenshtein distance of 4.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#137

Post by squeaky-clean » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:41 PM UTC

byoung2 wrote: post #2

Nearly half of black males and almost 40 percent of white males in the U.S. are arrested by age 23, which can hurt their ability to find work, go to school and participate fully in their communities. An arrest by itself, without an accompanying conviction, cannot be used to deny employment. 1. http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/arrest_conviction.cfm#I

And when I delivered pizza, my manager wasn't allowed to make me work unpaid overtime. But this is America, and something being "not allowed" doesn't mean it isn't happening all the time. The people affected by this most generally cannot afford legal action to defend themselves against this. Or worse, they're unaware that it's illegal to do this.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#138

Post by byoung2 » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:41 PM UTC

sanj wrote: post #20

byoung2 wrote: post #2

Nearly half of black males and almost 40 percent of white males in the U.S. are arrested by age 23, which can hurt their ability to find work, go to school and participate fully in their communities. An arrest by itself, without an accompanying conviction, cannot be used to deny employment. 1. http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/arrest_conviction.cfm#I

"However, an employer may make an employment decision based on the conduct underlying an arrest if the conduct makes the individual unfit for the position in question." Which is more than enough wiggle room.

True. If you are truly innocent of the crime, you should have a good case to get the arrest record expunged (e.g. arrested for a case of mistaken identity and the charges are dropped). If there is enough evidence that you can't file a motion to dismiss, and the case goes to trial, then I suppose you have some explaining to do. The employer might be justified in denying employment if you engage in behavior that results in arrest (e.g. you are a known gang member arrested in a sweep, and later released or you were caught joyriding and the owner decides not to press charges). In this case, the arrest is not the reason for denying employment, your behavior is.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#139

Post by Steer » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:43 PM UTC

ddlatham wrote: post #83

Most striking are the race differences revealed in the study, Brame says. In particular, the research points to a higher prevalence of arrest among black males and little race variation in arrest rates among females. ... By age 23, 49 percent of black males, 44 percent of Hispanic males and 38 percent of white males have been arrested. ... By age 23, arrest rates were 20 percent for white females and 18 percent and 1…

Strange, but coming from an European background while taking in a lot of American culture, I was (pleasantly, I guess) surprised that the discrepancy between white and black males wasn't larger. I am more or less shocked about he percentages overall, but really thought the gap was much larger.

Sorry if this doesn't add anything substantial, but I honestly would have have guessed that it was about 3 times more black males getting arrested than white males. I need to broaden where I get my US-information from obviously.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#140

Post by agwa » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 9:44 PM UTC

delluminatus wrote: post #136

agwa wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been dubbed the "school-to-prison pipeline." It's exacerbated by the fact that many schools now have police officers permanently stationed at the school, which leads to a "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" problem. It also contributes to the racial disparity because predominantly black schools are more likely to have a police officer than predominantly white schools.

Exacerbated, not exasperated. :) You were close though, they only have a Levenshtein distance of 4.

Thank you :-)