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I want a job, but don't want to do those stupid tech interviews

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Re: I want a job, but don't want to do those stupid tech interviews

#41

Why worry about tech questions? If you're a half-decent programmer and a half decent learner, memorize the top 20 questions in 2 days and you're good to go. Bam! Suddenly you're a standard deviation above the competition. Don't complain about a system when you can game that system to your advantage! Also, tech questions are a filter, you can only pass a tech interview in two ways: 1) Actually be competent, know and u…

#2 tells you nothing about the ability of the candidate to do the actual job.

In fact, mostly it is assumed that the candidate should prepare for the interview (i.e. #2).

Instead of this, maybe you should concentrate to come up with better interviews which tells you that the candidate is a good fit AS-IS for the given position?

Re: I want a job, but don't want to do those stupid tech interviews

#42
Been interviewing people around 8 years now. I continue to be amazed at how much people who look like rock stars on paper can flounder on the basics, and "average" looking candidates can shine.

No strategy is perfect, but put yourself in the shoes of someone about to drop a large portion of their budget on you. Wouldn't you want some idea that they'll be able to do the job?

Talking over coffee sounds great, but I've encountered many a candidate that talks a big game on the high level, but just can't write code.

(fwiw, I don't use "gotcha" questions with tricks, I'm quite flexible on languages used, I'm not being a stickler on syntax, and I don't care if you code on a whiteboard, paper, or laptop I provide.)

Re: I want a job, but don't want to do those stupid tech interviews

#43
I do a lot of contract work these days and I recently found out about a service that promises to put high quality programmers together with high quality clients. The average fees are somewhat high (high for a global average but low-ish for top-grade programmers). I won't mention them here because I'm not going to give them a free plug.

Their interview process has half a dozen independent steps including live coding tests, HR screens, etc. I had some very specific questions that would have been a deal breaker for me and tried to contact them to get them answered directly before I considered jumping through all of hoops they have set up.

Long story short they gave me the runaround and refused to put me in contact with someone who could answer my questions. They told me my questions would be answered at stage 3 (or whatever) of the interview process. I said no thanks (seriously, I was polite about it, said I wasn't interested and even thanked the guy for his time) and he responded with a snarky reply about them being very selective anyway. Not sure if he was implying that I wouldn't make the cut or not but I found it offensive.

Now the funny part -- the only reason I found out about the service was I had googled the name of another programmer and he has a "resume" posted on their site. He has apparently done dozens of projects for them. Someone approached me to fix a project that this particular programmer had messed up to the point where he couldn't take it forward. While it was in a notoriously difficult area, in no way should it have been an intractable problem for a competent programmer, at least in my opinion.

My takeaway is that these protracted interview carnivals are good at filtering out two types of programmers -- the worst and the best. Having made it through probably says more about your tolerance for bureaucracy than your actual abilities. There are exceptions of course -- Google et al -- but I would imagine the average company or service is missing out by not allowing people to circumvent this process when they're discriminating enough to want to do that.

> The whole process is a real pain. I'd love to just grab a coffee and discuss how we can work together. Is there any way to circumvent/short-circuit this whole tech interview process?

Exactly. If you want to hire exceptional people, don't treat them like they're average.

[Edit: wording]

Re: I want a job, but don't want to do those stupid tech interviews

#44

Why worry about tech questions? If you're a half-decent programmer and a half decent learner, memorize the top 20 questions in 2 days and you're good to go. Bam! Suddenly you're a standard deviation above the competition. Don't complain about a system when you can game that system to your advantage! Also, tech questions are a filter, you can only pass a tech interview in two ways: 1) Actually be competent, know and u…

First of all, if your business wants me to memorize stuff that has nothing to do with my job so that we can both engage in a game of pretend, I don't want to work there. Who knows what other stupid shit you'll make me do.

But what really alarmed me was the following sentence:

> Don't complain about a system when you can game that system to your advantage!

This is not only morally dubious, it can be downright dangerous. A broken system is unstable, and can quickly turn against you. If you see a fire in your neighbours yard you should do something about it, even if he is a total asshole.

Re: I want a job, but don't want to do those stupid tech interviews

#45

This doesn't answer your question, but that's because I think that your question is unreasonable: I get that tech interviews can be long and thorough and at times opaque, but would you want to hire a programmer after you've just had "a coffee and discuss how we can work together"? I've worked with a lot of people that can talk the talk really well but couldn't write code to save their life and it sucks to manage them…

An interview process has become fashionable in which candidates are asked to solve brain teasers or write code or pseudocode on whiteboards while the interviewers look on. Personally, I stink at both tasks and have never done well in an interview where they were used. You may therefore consider that the following comes from a biased source.

When I first went to work at Apple in the late 80s, they didn't use that kind of process (I don't know what they do now). They asked to see my previous work, to have the names of people I'd worked with, and to have me describe what I knew and how I might approach certain kinds of problems. That seemed reasonable to me then and still seems reasonable to me now.

I worked for several groups in Apple over the years, and I often had to go through similar interview processes even when moving within the company, but I never had to jump through the sorts of hoops that are all the rage nowadays.

The first time I encountered this currently-popular process was at Microsoft in the early 90s. The young Microsoft guys (and they were indeed all young guys) who implemented it took evident delight in roasting the candidate. There's no doubt that I failed that process, but I got a generous offer anyway, presumably because voices higher up wanted me at Microsoft. (I turned them down. Their interviewers turned me off; I didn't want to work with those guys.)

My impression of their process is not an isolated one. I knew several other people who reported the same thing. One of them was a guy who was rejected by that process, but who later went on to create and lead a Microsoft research project that has since become very well known. During his hazing he solved one of the posed problems elegantly, but was knocked by the interviewer because he didn't know the name of the data structure he had used. I remember thinking at the time, "the guy invents an efficient data structure on the spot to solve your problem and what concerns you is that he doesn't know its name?"

These hazing-ritual-style interviews don't measure what they purport to measure. You are asked brainteasers allegedly to explore whether you have the kind of mind that excels at problem-solving, but that's not what those questions measure. What they measure is how well you can ignore the distraction of a potentially hostile audience while trying to think logically. Whiteboard questions are justified in the same way--"we want to see how you think." Bad luck, then, because what you will actually see is how thick-skinned the candidate is--how much composure they retain while in the spotlight.

Neither of those qualities has anything whatsoever to do with any of the work I've done in thirty years as a programmer. Brainteaser questions and whiteboard exercises make sense if you're hiring someone to solve brainteasers in a few seconds in front of an audience; not so much for any other job.

Steve Jobs arranged a long one-on-one with me to try to persuade me to go to work for NeXT in 1994 (he succeeded). I had to go through their formal interview process after that, and one of their engineers tried to turn it into one of these hazing rituals, but his boss told him to cut it out.

Nowadays, though, they're all the rage. I finally started telling people I just wouldn't do it. If someone wants me to go to work for them now, my first question is about their interview process. If it contains elements I object to I tell them to forget it. Just mark me down with the worst possible score on those elements of the process. If you still want to talk to me after that, fine. Otherwise, you want someone else.

If you want to know what a programmer is capable of, look at existing work and talk to references. If you want to know how they think, engage them in intelligent conversation or, again, talk to people they've worked with. If you want to know specifically how a programmer will handle issues your company is grappling with, offer a short contract to solve some pending problem. That's going to tell you orders of magnitude more about what the programmer's thinking is like than brainteasers and whiteboard exercises.

About the only thing you're likely to learn from in-person interviews is whether the person seems to fit into the social milieu of your firm. That's valuable to know, but there's no need to dress that up with a song and dance about discovering technical aptitude, and if you think the current fashion in interviews is anything more than a song and dance, you're fooling yourself.

Re: I want a job, but don't want to do those stupid tech interviews

#46
Interviews are mostly BS, and at the moment I hear "yeah we will ask you to do some stuff to show how you work" I already loose interest in such company. I don't go to the interview in person to look at the interviewer. I come prepared, show my previous work (also some code snippets if needed), I'm available for questions. So please respect my time, as I clearly respect yours.

Re: I want a job, but don't want to do those stupid tech interviews

#47
Yes,

A) Live in a large city, preferable a "Tech Hub" B) Find (small/Startup) Companies that are near where you live C) Research a nice Cafe somewhere close to their office D) Write an informal mail, "Hey, I saw you are looking for a 'INSERT JOB TITLE HERE', I live pretty close to your office, how about a short meeting at 'INSERT NAME OF CAFE HERE', I'd like to ask some quick questions about your company and the job position?

Have a nice day, 'INSERT YOUR NAME HERE'"

See what happens, ...

A good way to prepare for that is to go to meetups in the same city that are closely related to the technology that the company uses, and chat up existing employees.... But attending meetups all the time can be tiring too.

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