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Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

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Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#211

Post by andrewflnr »

eru wrote: post #177
spdy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this exactly what everyone needs in the beginning. Simple and clear syntax where you are able to produce results in a short amount of time to keep you interested. I just remembered some people i learned with who struggled along time to get behind the concept of pointers and how to use them when they thought us c/c++ as an intro language to programming.

C is not great but bearable as an intro language, mostly because K&R is a good textbook and the language is small. C++ would be absolutely horrible. Is anyone doing this?

Yes. At Pasadena City College, at least, most CS classes are taught in C++. AFAIK the creation of even one Python class is still mired in political nonsense.

Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#213

Post by lbruder »

hueving wrote: post #202
brudgers wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If programming language selection for introductory university courses was based on pedagogical research on introductory computer science courses, I suspect Scheme would be nearly universal given its roots and nearly forty year track record. But that's not how languages have typically been selected for 15 years or so. The direct vocational skills argument has held much more sway.

Care to elaborate? I wasn't aware scheme was known for its usability (easy to learn).

IMO Scheme is one of the easiest languages to learn. Have a look at SICP (http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp), one of the best introductory programming courses available, complete in Scheme. They just _use_ the language, without actually _teaching_ it, and students just pick it up on the go. Sure, there are lots of corners omitted, but at the end of SICP, you've written your own Scheme interpreter / compiler combo that you can build upon.

Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#214

Post by Rapzid »

artlogic wrote: post #68
enrmarc wrote: post #39

Yes, Python is an excellent language for beginners, but so is Ruby in my opinion. Not trolling: why nobody is using Ruby in introductory courses?

I've taught both, and IMHO, the Ruby is less suited for the job of an introductory language because a block (i.e. an anonymous function) is a hard concept for a beginner to grasp and a core part of idiomatic Ruby. Python's syntax simply has "less magic" and is more regular. Ruby's syntax seems to be suited for either folks who don't really want to know what's going on (just give me a DSL and leave me alone) or studen…

That's why I think the best introductory is the usual C/C++ classes that build on a foundation of memory addresses, the stack, function calls, etc. If you spent just a few days talking about how an actual program runs, blocks are very easy to place on that foundation(haha, see what I did there?).

Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#215

Post by dobbsbob »

hueving wrote: post #202
brudgers wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If programming language selection for introductory university courses was based on pedagogical research on introductory computer science courses, I suspect Scheme would be nearly universal given its roots and nearly forty year track record. But that's not how languages have typically been selected for 15 years or so. The direct vocational skills argument has held much more sway.

Care to elaborate? I wasn't aware scheme was known for its usability (easy to learn).

That's why SICP endured so long as an introductory course to programming. because Scheme is easy to use. You learn programming instead of a language.

Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#216

Post by sejje »

crdoconnor wrote: post #196
jarrett wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take on Ruby vs Python is this: While Python has a healthy web dev ecosystem, Ruby's feels much larger to me. That's almost certainly because Rails is so wildly popular. And Rails is an excellent, mature framework. So for web dev, I would consider Ruby the winner. Python is the clear winner for scientific computing. That's not really due to anything inherent in the language. It's an ecosystem thing. If you were us…

>While Python has a healthy web dev ecosystem, Ruby's feels much larger to me. What is there in, say, rails that would not be available for django?

Stack overflow QAs covering virtually every possible problem you'll encounter.

I much prefer Python/Django, but when I get stuck, it always lasts longer.

Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#217

Post by ylem »

selimthegrim wrote: post #46
phkahler wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the ancient libraries used by computational chemists? I hope to get some insight to the field based on the answer to this question ;-)

I work with computational chemists at the moment, major offenders are LAPACK and ATLAS in FORTRAN-90

But Fortran 90 is much more readable than 77 :-p The downside is that binding fortran 90 (95, 2003) to python is much more painful...

Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#218

Post by Daishiman »

spenrose wrote: post #43

Python was heavily based on ABC, a language which targeted new programers and made syntax choices based on user testing: http://python-history.blogspot.ca/2009/02/early-language-design-and-development.html It says a lot about our understanding of our field that new languages generally do not formally test their syntaxes (and other "mental model" features) for usability.

A lot of the recent Rust syntax changes are based on applying proposed changes to the Servo codebase and analyzing the changes subjectively across the entire sample. In cases where new semantics help with inference of types or annotations, the metric becomes quite objective.

Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#219

Post by krallja »

ommunist wrote: post #198

So Python is the new BASIC. Being widely introduced in the universities, could be the mark of ageing and obsoleteness. Since the university is normally teaching something very irrelevant to the real life, shouldn't the student look around for that emerging tech that will bring him a job in 5 years from now?

BASIC was taught in universities the year it was introduced.

Re: Python is now the most popular introductory language at top U.S. universities

#220

Post by baddox »

eru wrote: post #178
advocaat23 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to HN! Ruby is a good idea for webdev but keep in mind that Python is also dominant in other domains of computing in particular scripting and scientific computing. So in my opinion for a beginner Python is more future proof than Ruby [activate language-flamewar-prevention-daemon] and if you later add a system-language (e.g. C) and a modern general purpose language (e.g. Haskell or Scheme/LISP) to your reperto…

If you pick a Lisp, pick Racket or Clojure. All else being equal, they are the most modern and pleasant variants to work with.

Or Emacs Lisp, if you don't have a specific project in mind and/or aren't already heavily invested in a text editor. As a programming language in and of itself, it's not a greap lisp, but it's a great practical way to learn lisp while you're customizing your text editor.
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