How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will • Hacker News Board

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#71

Post by _wp3r » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:43 PM UTC

If you have ever used mapmaker, and attempted to update/modify POI and roads, then you will be aware of the strange and unvalidated process of accepting and denying changes to Gmaps.

There are more than a couple bad actors that are Approved Google map moderators. I am not sure if their collective actions for denying and modifying changes are a net good or net positive. It has always seemed strange that someone from Washington state can deny a detailed and documented road/POI change in Florida.

I really enjoy editing/contributing to Gmaps, but the seemingly random/poisonous moderation process in that ecosystem is a huge turn off.

Sorry if this is a tad off topic.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#72

Post by mollietaylor » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:44 PM UTC

woodchuck64 wrote: post #14

vinceguidry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: Demonstrating causation between a bad Google Maps listing and Serbian Crown’s decline is going to be hard, though. For one thing, the restaurant’s Yelp listing—also a big factor in choosing a dinner reservation—is packed with abysmal, almost frightening, reviews. And there are any number of reasons a restaurant—even an old, established one—can fail, as Google’s lawyers pointed out an angry June 17 m…

Does the article actually thoroughly discredit its own title? People don't write anymore.

Writers rarely get to choose their own headlines. That's why it's quite common to find completely reasonable articles with extremely sensational headlines.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#73

Post by wutbrodo » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:46 PM UTC

nnnnni wrote: post #22

post_break wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's a restaurant so you know they like to not list the phone number, hours, or menu (sarcasm).

You've also got to love how the menu is always done in flash, so you most likely can't view it on a phone...

Tangent: You can still view Flash on most phones sold, no? I think as long as you're using something other than Chrome (like FF).

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#74

Post by cratermoon » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:47 PM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #51

vdaniuk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the article didn't support the title. The title supported by the article could be "How Google Map Hackers Can Contribute To The Demise Of The Restaurant On A Downhill Trajectory". This is just one sensationalist title.

Why so much hate on the headline? The article itself is perfectly reasonable, so just read and digest that. It sounds like you want to just read the title and understand everything.

I used to be a copy editor, back in the day when newspapers had copy editors. One of the jobs of a copy editor back then was to write the headline, and write an accurate one. My chief editor was tough on me, too, and it was hard to come up with a good headline that fit the space and was accurate. She often changed just one word or tense and cleared things up, but now and then she'd can my headline entirely and rewrite it.

Today? Online news sites don't care about headline accuracy, just SEO and linkbait rating. They don't even really have to care about length, to an extent. "Subject That Will Blow Your Mind and Change the Way You See the World. Top All-time. You Won’t Believe Your Eyes. Watch."

So yes, headlines have gotten useless.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#75

Post by mcguire » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:50 PM UTC

bhartzer wrote: post #8

boobsbr wrote: post #3

One more reason why I don't trust POIs I find on Google Maps. I always try to find the actual business' page to check for phones and opening and closing hours.

You can't even rely on a business' website anymore, though. You have to actually call them on the phone and talk to a real person there, at the business. Too often even the business owner doesn't have time to update their website or get the "web guy" (read: his brother in law's son) to update the website in a timely manner.

"You can't even rely on a business' website anymore, though. You have to actually call them on the phone and talk to a real person there, at the business."

Anymore? That is the traditional way of finding that kind of information. Sure, there was a brief period of time when only technically sophisticate businesses were online, but as you say, that is no longer the case.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#76

Post by Crisco » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:51 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #68

jokoon wrote: post #60

I always wondered about this, but now it's obvious: google doesn't make sure those business info are accurate, it might have a huge cost to verify those info, for example asking for some paperwork to check. openstreetmap, on the other hand, seems much more trustful on this, since it's moderated a little like wikipedia is. I guess if openstreetmap was more popular, you might start to see similar problems described in…

As a business owner, it's your job to make sure those listings are accurate, just as it would be you would want to make sure the yellow pages had your right phone number. There's no excuse for technological illiteracy or ignorance, and if you don't want to bother to be in charge of your online presence, you had better hire someone for the job.

What if the owner has no idea that his business even has an online presence? I can see that being very common amongst older business owners, especially if they have never even used Google before.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#77

Post by chdir » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:51 PM UTC

drivingmenuts wrote: post #10

This is an example of one of the major problems of crowd-sourcing: trust. There is no way to verify that the integrity of the submitter, who could be giving wrong information due to malice, incompetence, or as a prank. There's entirely too much trust in crowdsourcing.

And it's very easy to bully someone by hiring an army of a 'black' crowd spread geographically.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#78

Post by jokoon » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:52 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #68

jokoon wrote: post #60

I always wondered about this, but now it's obvious: google doesn't make sure those business info are accurate, it might have a huge cost to verify those info, for example asking for some paperwork to check. openstreetmap, on the other hand, seems much more trustful on this, since it's moderated a little like wikipedia is. I guess if openstreetmap was more popular, you might start to see similar problems described in…

As a business owner, it's your job to make sure those listings are accurate, just as it would be you would want to make sure the yellow pages had your right phone number. There's no excuse for technological illiteracy or ignorance, and if you don't want to bother to be in charge of your online presence, you had better hire someone for the job.

> There's no excuse for technological illiteracy or ignorance

I know the internet is much more popular since the last 10 years, but I don't think everyone is really up to it. There are still big opportunities to scam people who don't have the minimum of tech savyness: viruses, etc.

The internet is still a jungle with not enough laws.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#79

Post by vinceguidry » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:52 PM UTC

cratermoon wrote: post #74

vinceguidry wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why so much hate on the headline? The article itself is perfectly reasonable, so just read and digest that. It sounds like you want to just read the title and understand everything.

I used to be a copy editor, back in the day when newspapers had copy editors. One of the jobs of a copy editor back then was to write the headline, and write an accurate one. My chief editor was tough on me, too, and it was hard to come up with a good headline that fit the space and was accurate. She often changed just one word or tense and cleared things up, but now and then she'd can my headline entirely and rewrit…

The only reason I look at a headline anymore for is to see what the topic is. They're not useless for that.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#80

Post by freyfogle » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:53 PM UTC

_wp3r wrote: post #71

If you have ever used mapmaker, and attempted to update/modify POI and roads, then you will be aware of the strange and unvalidated process of accepting and denying changes to Gmaps. There are more than a couple bad actors that are Approved Google map moderators. I am not sure if their collective actions for denying and modifying changes are a net good or net positive. It has always seemed strange that someone from W…

Out of curiosity, have you tried OpenStreetMap? You get the same enjoyment of editing without the "random/poisonous moderation process", plus the data you contribute is open, rather than private property.