How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will • Hacker News Board

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#11

Post by woodchuck64 » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:38 PM UTC

j_m_b wrote: post #5

"The Serbian Crown closed its doors after nearly 40 years in the same location." Oh sure... blame it on Google Maps telling people you aren't open on Sat, Sun, Mon. I guess your regulars, who you've built up over 40 years, don't know when you're open unless they look at Google maps. Even the owner himself says "If you’re going there, it’s because you’ve planned to go there." I imagine his problem could be more accura…

Indeed. The domestic demand for beef seems to be declining over the last 5 years, surely the demand for lion meat is falling as well.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/animal-products/cattle-beef/s...

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#12

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:41 PM UTC

j_m_b wrote: post #5

"The Serbian Crown closed its doors after nearly 40 years in the same location." Oh sure... blame it on Google Maps telling people you aren't open on Sat, Sun, Mon. I guess your regulars, who you've built up over 40 years, don't know when you're open unless they look at Google maps. Even the owner himself says "If you’re going there, it’s because you’ve planned to go there." I imagine his problem could be more accura…

I've planned many times to go to somewhere while still having to GPS my way there, and if the food/decor are crap, I'd suspect that's not a sudden change after 40 years.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#13

Post by orf » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:41 PM UTC

j_m_b wrote: post #5

"The Serbian Crown closed its doors after nearly 40 years in the same location." Oh sure... blame it on Google Maps telling people you aren't open on Sat, Sun, Mon. I guess your regulars, who you've built up over 40 years, don't know when you're open unless they look at Google maps. Even the owner himself says "If you’re going there, it’s because you’ve planned to go there." I imagine his problem could be more accura…

I've eaten Kangaroo in Cambridge and it tasted delicious, and I can assure you there are no Kangaroo farms around here - the fact the meat has been frozen is not the reason for them shutting. Any place that has been around for 40 years serving food has to be doing something right, they did win the "NVM Best Restaurant" award from 2006 to 2009. You also can't blame the decor on a huge, sudden drop in customers.

I would think that perhaps the hideous website[1] played a bigger role and perhaps didn't help the situation.

1. http://www.serbiancrown.com/

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#14

Post by woodchuck64 » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:42 PM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #9

j_m_b wrote: post #5

"The Serbian Crown closed its doors after nearly 40 years in the same location." Oh sure... blame it on Google Maps telling people you aren't open on Sat, Sun, Mon. I guess your regulars, who you've built up over 40 years, don't know when you're open unless they look at Google maps. Even the owner himself says "If you’re going there, it’s because you’ve planned to go there." I imagine his problem could be more accura…

From the article: Demonstrating causation between a bad Google Maps listing and Serbian Crown’s decline is going to be hard, though. For one thing, the restaurant’s Yelp listing—also a big factor in choosing a dinner reservation—is packed with abysmal, almost frightening, reviews. And there are any number of reasons a restaurant—even an old, established one—can fail, as Google’s lawyers pointed out an angry June 17 m…

Does the article actually thoroughly discredit its own title? People don't write anymore.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#15

Post by vinceguidry » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:43 PM UTC

woodchuck64 wrote: post #14

vinceguidry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: Demonstrating causation between a bad Google Maps listing and Serbian Crown’s decline is going to be hard, though. For one thing, the restaurant’s Yelp listing—also a big factor in choosing a dinner reservation—is packed with abysmal, almost frightening, reviews. And there are any number of reasons a restaurant—even an old, established one—can fail, as Google’s lawyers pointed out an angry June 17 m…

Does the article actually thoroughly discredit its own title? People don't write anymore.

The article didn't discredit anything. The title is "How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will" not "How Google Map Hackers Destroyed Serbian Crown".

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#16

Post by twoodfin » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:47 PM UTC

bhartzer wrote: post #8

boobsbr wrote: post #3

One more reason why I don't trust POIs I find on Google Maps. I always try to find the actual business' page to check for phones and opening and closing hours.

You can't even rely on a business' website anymore, though. You have to actually call them on the phone and talk to a real person there, at the business. Too often even the business owner doesn't have time to update their website or get the "web guy" (read: his brother in law's son) to update the website in a timely manner.

If I were Google, Yelp, or Facebook, I'd give serious consideration to selling local businesses pre-created, theme-able web sites on a subscription basis. They already have essentially all the content such sites would need, and better designers than most small businesses would have access to.

I regularly run into local places that use their Facebook page as their de facto virtual storefront, but that format could be much better customized for individual business varieties' needs, even putting aside the limitations of living in Facebook's garden.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#17

Post by benihana » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:54 PM UTC

VikingCoder wrote: post #4

hyperliner wrote: post #2

To what extent is a weapon or a tool at fault, instead of the shooter or user? This reminds me of Google bombing (for example, the attack on Rick Santorum, a Senator whose ideas we can all disagree with). It seems to me that there is a responsibility here for Google. Google has become in effect the only way for small businesses to get or not get exposure, and the way Google automates the process without authorization…

The business owner needs to care what their online presence (including their Google Places) looks like. There is nothing Google or anyone else can do, if the business doesn't care. When the business does care, there are lots of options to clean up their online presence.

Did you read the article? This isn't a case of the owner not caring; he didn't know that google maps was incorrectly reporting his hours. It took a phone call from a customer. And that's the problem - why would he ever think that people weren't coming to his restaurant because a map service messed up his hours? As is clear from this article, that was very low on his checklist of things that might be killing my business.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#18

Post by chdir » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:54 PM UTC

If you are running a popular place, whether you like it or not, you'll end up on Google controlled listings. Unfortunately, there's little help for a non-tech savvy business owner to fix problems with listings or fake reviews or even removal of genuine reviews. This is an area where they need to be held accountable. If you are wielding so much power, you need to handle it responsibly and error in favor of business owners rather than community. Most web companies prefer the approach of 'act now, apologize later' or maybe never to garner users.

I've had so many web services (including Facebook) create accounts using my email address without my approval (maybe because the other person used phone verification). Now if I want to claim back my email address on that web service, they put the burden on me to provide a photo ID. Using my email address is partially impersonating me because my contacts might have uploaded their address book and FB allows that willy nilly.

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#19

Post by maxerickson » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:55 PM UTC

j_m_b wrote: post #5

"The Serbian Crown closed its doors after nearly 40 years in the same location." Oh sure... blame it on Google Maps telling people you aren't open on Sat, Sun, Mon. I guess your regulars, who you've built up over 40 years, don't know when you're open unless they look at Google maps. Even the owner himself says "If you’re going there, it’s because you’ve planned to go there." I imagine his problem could be more accura…

They do have a system for the business to give feedback on the listing; it's even discussed in the article that the Serbian Crown eventually found a web consultant that helped them correct the listing. I have no idea if it is simple.

Each of Facebook, Google+, Yelp and Foursquare (and I'm sure lots of others, those are the ones I perceive as being 'big') have buttons that say something like 'Do you own this business?' (they disappear if/when the owner updates the listing). I sort of think these local business landing pages were one of the big reasons Google worked so hard to have their own Facebook (there are still an awful lot more businesses 'on Facebook' than are doing anything with Google+).

Re: How Google Map Hackers Can Destroy a Business at Will

#20

Post by benihana » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 2:57 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #13

j_m_b wrote: post #5

"The Serbian Crown closed its doors after nearly 40 years in the same location." Oh sure... blame it on Google Maps telling people you aren't open on Sat, Sun, Mon. I guess your regulars, who you've built up over 40 years, don't know when you're open unless they look at Google maps. Even the owner himself says "If you’re going there, it’s because you’ve planned to go there." I imagine his problem could be more accura…

I've eaten Kangaroo in Cambridge and it tasted delicious, and I can assure you there are no Kangaroo farms around here - the fact the meat has been frozen is not the reason for them shutting. Any place that has been around for 40 years serving food has to be doing something right, they did win the "NVM Best Restaurant" award from 2006 to 2009. You also can't blame the decor on a huge, sudden drop in customers. I woul…

And I would not be surprised to learn there is some internet activism at play here too. Someone who doesn't think people should eat [this list of animals] because of [this reason] might see this place and think "oh, if I go to Yelp and leave bad reviews, this place will close, ha ha!"