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Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

sirchristian.net

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Re: Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

#101

Post by daigoba66 »

penguat wrote: post #88
daigoba66 wrote: post #80

So here is my take: I'm currently working on a SaaS product built on .NET running on Windows Server, IIS, and SQL Server. We're not really a "startup" anymore, but we're still very small. I wasn't here when the first version of the product was built so I wasn't part of that decision. If I were building this product from scratch today as a money-poor startup, I would probably go with tech stack included Java or Python…

new VS subscription licences don't seem to be well publicised, but I'm pretty sure that $1000 could be cut down: http://www.visualstudio.com/en-gb/products/visual-studio-onl... - Assuming I'm reading it correctly.

That's very interesting. But it's not clear if you get the other important MSDN benefits, specifically dev licenses for Windows, Windows Server, and SQL Server.

Re: Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

#102

Post by sirchristian »

daigoba66 wrote: post #80

So here is my take: I'm currently working on a SaaS product built on .NET running on Windows Server, IIS, and SQL Server. We're not really a "startup" anymore, but we're still very small. I wasn't here when the first version of the product was built so I wasn't part of that decision. If I were building this product from scratch today as a money-poor startup, I would probably go with tech stack included Java or Python…

Your analysis of SQL Server is spot on. It's the biggest expense going 100% on the MS stack.

Re: Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

#103

Post by daigoba66 »

omnibrain wrote: post #99
daigoba66 wrote: post #80

So here is my take: I'm currently working on a SaaS product built on .NET running on Windows Server, IIS, and SQL Server. We're not really a "startup" anymore, but we're still very small. I wasn't here when the first version of the product was built so I wasn't part of that decision. If I were building this product from scratch today as a money-poor startup, I would probably go with tech stack included Java or Python…

If you have outgrown Bizspark but are still relatively small the Microsoft Action Pack Subscription may be suitable for you.

The big difference is that Bizspark gives you "production" licenses. The Action Pack licences are restricted to non-production usage only.

We actually use the Action Pack today to get access to the latest VS Pro. But it's "limited to three developers", and the other MSDN software benefits are severely limited compared to MSDN pro (e.g. only certain editions of Windows Server and SQL Server).

Re: Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

#105

Post by _xhok »

the article seems to be saying C# is cheap and fast because it has a really good set of libraries. i have no problem believing this. the question in a startup is, is it more important to have good libraries or a powerful language? e.g. lisp is the most powerful language, but its library ecosystem isn't reliable enough. whereas java is a weak language but has great libraries. (that's why clojure's awesome!)

i'm not trying to start any kind of religious war here, but this is personally why i (and i suspect many others) code their web apps in python. it's a reasonably powerful language with an excellent set of libraries to go with it.

Re: Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

#107

Post by sequence7 »

reitanqild wrote: post #97
bigdubs wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or as good an ide as visual studio ...

hang on a sec.... Long time developer here, came from vs to eclipse and later Netbeans and Idea: Tell me: don't you still have to buy resharper to get the same refactoring tools that I get for free in eclipse?

What kind of refactoring tools do you get free in eclipse that aren't included in VS 2013 or 2014?

Re: Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

#108

Post by narrowrail »

omnibrain wrote: post #99
daigoba66 wrote: post #80

So here is my take: I'm currently working on a SaaS product built on .NET running on Windows Server, IIS, and SQL Server. We're not really a "startup" anymore, but we're still very small. I wasn't here when the first version of the product was built so I wasn't part of that decision. If I were building this product from scratch today as a money-poor startup, I would probably go with tech stack included Java or Python…

If you have outgrown Bizspark but are still relatively small the Microsoft Action Pack Subscription may be suitable for you.

Right. Eventually your business grows, you're doing $3M in revenue, and have 8 employees with a total burden of $1.5M. How much will it cost to run with per core fees for various components? Was the ease of use and maintability worth it (at this point, one can start to calculate but it gets murky)? Will it add or subtract from the infratstructure costs? I don't know, but I'm not going to go down a proprietary path to find out.

EDIT: Of course, it always depends on where you are coming from. If you are in a large corp. with MS tech already entrenched or come from that environment, it makes sense (as it seems many are that are weighing in). Or, if you are building to flip, and are most productive in this ecosystem.

Re: Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

#109

Post by pionar »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #59
mattmanser wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better how? C#'s one of the best languages in town and the IDE's the unchallenged best in town by a long way. And the SQL product is amazing, much better than MySlowQL. So what bit is better? Deployment? Hosting? I'm genuinely asking here, you're just waving hands. I've used both, the thing that puts me off .Net is the lack of choice when new stuff comes out (like elasticsearch, or a new language, or something like D…

I've used Visual Studio, XCode, Eclipse and IntelliJ - the thought that Visual Studio is the unchallenged king of them all never crossed my mind. Honestly curious - what makes it the best in our opinion?

I've used XCode and Eclipse before, so I have nothing to compare IntelliJ against.

The debugging experience is the key. The best thing a VS user can do to boost productivity substantially is learn how to use the debugging tools (navigating the stack, using Debug output messages, conditional breakpoints, the immediate window, autos and locals, etc.)

The plugin and extension community is awesome. There are two extensions every (web) developer needs - Web Essentials and Productivity Power Pack. These two are produced unofficially by MS teams as a platform for experimental features that may or may not make it into future VS versions.

Refactoring and code correctness is so much better in VS. Code Analysis, StyleCop, and third-party tools like Resharper make it a snap to analyze and correct code that may cause issues in the future.

This, and the planning tools that TFS gives us out of the box (whether you use git or the tfs vcs) is a boon to developer productivity.

Not to mention the great effort MS makes at backward compatibility. If you created an app in 2006, chances are it'll work on the latest version of .NET without much trouble.

Re: Unapologetically build your startup technology in C#

#110

Post by philbarr »

personZ wrote: post #94
doczoidberg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a measurable advantage of c# over java is LINQ.

This is a very unpopular opinion among .NET advocates, but personally I think LINQ is the worst thing to ever happen to c#. It leads to ( in my opinion ) grotesque, unreadable code that more often than not hides enormous performance problems. It offers so much expressiveness, seemingly so innocent of its cost, that it gets massively overused and abused. As with all things in languages, one can argue "use it right", "…

Absolutely agree. I can't count the number of times I've seen some horrendous LINQ thing when a simple for loop would have sufficed, would have been easier to understand, and would have been far quicker.
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