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How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

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Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#11

Post by guard-of-terra »

_bfhp wrote: post #8
guard-of-terra wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Are you implying that interest in jewelry is inborn in women?" This is an extremelly important question with regards to history of our species, so if you by some chance have an answer be sure to share it with us along with rationale.

It's not. Such a thing would be impossible. Look up "gender socialization" and read about girlhood: http://www.metafilter.com/121190/teenage-girls-they-havent-b... http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/jan... http://sodisarmingdarling.tumblr.com/post/34106027759/what-i... http://rebeccahains.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/is-my-son-smart...

The articles you quote, while flamebait, don't try to answer the forementioned question. As for "impossible" - why?

Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#12

Post by _bfhp »

oillio wrote: post #9

From the article: "It seems so degrading," Wheat said. "If you're a girl interested in building websites, you're a 'web diva.' If you're a boy, you're a web developer." ------------------------------------- I have seen many a job posting looking for web ninjas, rockstars, and the like. Our industry has a history of being rather informal, and often catering to the narcissistic side of developers. Sometimes this is for…

You are missing their point. "Ninjas" and "rockstars" aren't particularly gendered (they actually are and we both know it but who would be honest enough to admit such a thing?) but "diva" certainly is. The writer's problem is not the lack of formality -- is that really what you took away?

Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#13

Post by _bfhp »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #11
_bfhp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. Such a thing would be impossible. Look up "gender socialization" and read about girlhood: http://www.metafilter.com/121190/teenage-girls-they-havent-b... http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/jan... http://sodisarmingdarling.tumblr.com/post/34106027759/what-i... http://rebeccahains.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/is-my-son-smart...

The articles you quote, while flamebait, don't try to answer the forementioned question. As for "impossible" - why?

That women talking about being girls is "flamebait" says more about you than the articles.

Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#14

Post by spindritf »

_bfhp wrote: post #8
guard-of-terra wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Are you implying that interest in jewelry is inborn in women?" This is an extremelly important question with regards to history of our species, so if you by some chance have an answer be sure to share it with us along with rationale.

It's not. Such a thing would be impossible. Look up "gender socialization" and read about girlhood: http://www.metafilter.com/121190/teenage-girls-they-havent-b... http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/jan... http://sodisarmingdarling.tumblr.com/post/34106027759/what-i... http://rebeccahains.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/is-my-son-smart...

Why would a tendency to adorn oneself not be innate? Seems pretty universal to me. Why should nurture be the default assumption? I'm sorry but your answer is terrible, akin to "look up sexual selection and read about genetics."

Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#15

Post by _bfhp »

spindritf wrote: post #14
_bfhp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. Such a thing would be impossible. Look up "gender socialization" and read about girlhood: http://www.metafilter.com/121190/teenage-girls-they-havent-b... http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/jan... http://sodisarmingdarling.tumblr.com/post/34106027759/what-i... http://rebeccahains.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/is-my-son-smart...

Why would a tendency to adorn oneself not be innate? Seems pretty universal to me. Why should nurture be the default assumption? I'm sorry but your answer is terrible, akin to "look up sexual selection and read about genetics."

"a tendency to adorn" is not the same as "a tendency to adorn oneself with jewelry", which is what I've been talking about -- are you talking to me?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Why should the non-existence of God be the default assumption?

Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#16

Post by andrewflnr »

I like "don't make it pink" as a slogan to combat tech gender backlash nonsense. Love of math, beauty, and raw power are all universal, let's work on that angle. But at the same time, let's make sure we allow gender-specific themes from both sides to be involved, so we don't quash freedom of expression while at the same time not excluding...

Never mind, it's probably going to take two generations to fix, regardless of what anyone says today. Society will figure all this out when a generation grows up in a time where this is all painfully obvious and not before.

Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#18

Post by spindritf »

_bfhp wrote: post #15
spindritf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a tendency to adorn oneself not be innate? Seems pretty universal to me. Why should nurture be the default assumption? I'm sorry but your answer is terrible, akin to "look up sexual selection and read about genetics."

"a tendency to adorn" is not the same as "a tendency to adorn oneself with jewelry", which is what I've been talking about -- are you talking to me? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Why should the non-existence of God be the default assumption?

Why is nature a somehow extraordinary claim and nurture is not? That was my question.

"a tendency to adorn" is not the same as "a tendency to adorn oneself with jewelry"

The latter is a subset of the former, OK. But I completely don't see the relevance.

Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#19

Post by oillio »

_bfhp wrote: post #12
oillio wrote: post #9

From the article: "It seems so degrading," Wheat said. "If you're a girl interested in building websites, you're a 'web diva.' If you're a boy, you're a web developer." ------------------------------------- I have seen many a job posting looking for web ninjas, rockstars, and the like. Our industry has a history of being rather informal, and often catering to the narcissistic side of developers. Sometimes this is for…

You are missing their point. "Ninjas" and "rockstars" aren't particularly gendered (they actually are and we both know it but who would be honest enough to admit such a thing?) but "diva" certainly is. The writer's problem is not the lack of formality -- is that really what you took away?

You just made my counter argument for me. Ninjas are definitely gendered.

Yes, the argument is about formality. The claim is that "diva" is degrading because it is unprofessional and narcissistic, where "web developer" is gender neutral and professional. My point is, there are many many examples of non-gender neutral and unprofessional references in our industry. Diva is not degrading, it is targeting a specific audience, as is Ninja.

We definitely have a gender imbalance in the industry. Should we be attacking those trying to rectifying the situation because they do not match your opinion on the extent that society should remain gender neutral?

Re: How not to attract women to coding: Make tech pink

#20

Post by dickinurass »

_bfhp wrote: post #12
oillio wrote: post #9

From the article: "It seems so degrading," Wheat said. "If you're a girl interested in building websites, you're a 'web diva.' If you're a boy, you're a web developer." ------------------------------------- I have seen many a job posting looking for web ninjas, rockstars, and the like. Our industry has a history of being rather informal, and often catering to the narcissistic side of developers. Sometimes this is for…

You are missing their point. "Ninjas" and "rockstars" aren't particularly gendered (they actually are and we both know it but who would be honest enough to admit such a thing?) but "diva" certainly is. The writer's problem is not the lack of formality -- is that really what you took away?

a lot of recruiters have rocks for brains it's true .. but this maintainability isn't everywhere
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