Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#11

Post by brickmort » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 4:46 PM UTC

I think it's a very interesting concept and it should be experimented with more, especially with so many things now being facilitated by being automated.

I think a big factor for this idea not catching on is the grey area of what qualifies as 40h workweek labor. Some jobs like customer service positions make sense, but what about jobs that require a 24h standby? What about positions with fluctuating periods of downtime through the year? what about jobs that could be 8h workdays, but they haven't yet been confirmed that they could in fact be more effective as a 6h or 4h workday?

It's a by-product of modern times not quite catching up with modern technology. We certainly have the ability to think up algorithms that would better suit certain positions based on these factors, but the idea of it right now is too drastic and 'unfair' sounding. Ideally, in time, with the right evidence proving it's effectiveness, workdays would be shortened, quality of lives would bump up and robots would gradually take over.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#12

Post by mrottenkolber » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 4:47 PM UTC

I do this kind of week as a consultant. I think its the perfect work week.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#13

Post by patio11 » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 4:51 PM UTC

Many of my small business buddies [+] start with their first few programmers on this sort of schedule. It generally fits within their/our budgets, gets them continuity versus project-based freelancers, and doesn't cause them to have to compromise on their quality of life through managing you constantly.

It isn't my place to mention the salaries I've heard but, anecdotally, they're a) more than anything I earned prior to going into business for myself and b) a substantial discount to market rates for FTE programmers.

So that's one option for you. Another is to be very good at making companies money and then, in negotiations, trade access to you for flexibility. Still another option is to own the company you're negotiating with.

[+] Context: solo founders or married couples running software small businesses with revenue in six to seven figures and no investor mandate to radically change the character of the business.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#14

Post by threepipeproblm » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 4:53 PM UTC

mrottenkolber wrote: post #12

I do this kind of week as a consultant. I think its the perfect work week.

Similar here.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#15

Post by tslathrow » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 5:01 PM UTC

Well I have a lot of experience with 16 hour/day work weeks (have worked at banks most of my life). Yeah, you're right, it's not fun.

It really comes down to the time-sensitivity of your work. For someone in their 20s, I think the perfect balance is less than 80 hours/week but more than 40-50. If you're being paid two standard deviations over US median household income ($120k+), you're going to be expected to put some work-life balance on hold.

"Knowledge worker" makes you sound like you think programming is rocket surgery. VC is actually much closer to knowledge work than programming, and could more realistically have 16-hour work weeks.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#16

Post by anupshinde » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 5:02 PM UTC

I do 20-24 hours a week as a freelancer/consultant. And it is definitely productive experience. I have at times hopped to 40+ hours and never enjoyed it. I tried 30 per week but that was not better either. These 20-24 hours are highly productive and I spend the rest of the time with family/friends - or reading/experimenting.

The downside though - I sometimes feel I am wasting my time (because not many do so) and occasionally worry about opportunity costs.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#17

Post by seivan » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 5:07 PM UTC

tslathrow wrote: post #15

Well I have a lot of experience with 16 hour/day work weeks (have worked at banks most of my life). Yeah, you're right, it's not fun. It really comes down to the time-sensitivity of your work. For someone in their 20s, I think the perfect balance is less than 80 hours/week but more than 40-50. If you're being paid two standard deviations over US median household income ($120k+), you're going to be expected to put som…

I down voted you for the VC being closer to knowledge work than writing software. Sorry but that is just plain wrong - on both ends.

Hen is right that expecting 40 hours out of a software engineer is ridiculous.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#18

Post by atemerev » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 5:09 PM UTC

I do hire on such terms. I believe it will become more and more widespread in the course of years. James Altucher is right — in the future, there will be only business owners and temp staffers/freelancers instead of our usual "permanent" office jobs, with lots of legal obligations.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#19

Post by pling » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 5:17 PM UTC

If you're good, this is what good contract work is like.

Many times I got hired for a 3 month stint and got it all done in a couple of weeks with one eye shut. I tended to chip in and help with any other bits lying around that needed doing rather than sitting there playing solitaire. Builds a good reputation.

This is how I started my current permanent job. They decided they wanted to keep me so I'm getting paid a contractor's salary for a permanent job now and have a 25h week flexible time as a technical advisor and general devops guy.

Re: Ask HN: 16-hour work week jobs?

#20

Post by akamaka » Sun, Jul 06, 2014, 5:20 PM UTC

Thanks for posting this! I've been looking for the same thing, but my most recent attempt failed.

I was asked to come back to a company that I used to work for, and I insisted that I would only come back if I could do a 3 day work week. I'm convinced my productivity would have been similar to when I used to work a 40 hour week with them, because rarely put in more than 3 hours of actual work per day. Unfortunately, they didn't hire me, because they said that absolutely needed someone full time to be able to complete the project on schedule.

I think they rejected the idea because everyone else there is on a 40-hour week, and they simply can't contemplate the idea of someone doing less work. They've been slogging away at the same never-ending project for 2 years now, and they aren't looking for someone to get work done efficiently. They want someone who will join in their suffering.

Going forward, I'm going to keep looking for a part time opportunity, but not waste time trying to convince people that it's good idea. I think I need to find people who already just get it.