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Stop The JerkTech

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21–30 of 202 posts

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#21
post #2

I wonder if this is conceptually similar to "Tragedy of The Commons." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons ) I can't really see how these services are not just the exploitation of services for the public good. Pretty disgusting behaviour.

Not really - the tragedy of the commons is the examples of oceans fisheries or trash on the street, where any one person doesn't have enough ownership to care enough to ensure continual sustainability. Ironically, this is if anything, a counter to the tragedy of the commons (albeit an awkward fit) - they're trying to price something that has an assumed value people took for granted. Again, I'm not saying its something great, but its not this concept.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#22
post #5

Whenever I hear about these I always wonder what the people that found them are thinking. I mean, what type of person would you have to be to decide to try and screw over the restaurant industry (which already has historically low margins) just to make a buck? I can't even imagine how many fake reservations they would need to create to make that idea worthwhile for them. And what investors would give them money to do…

I'm going to disagree some here. When people claim starups aren't creating value, I always push back - just because they aren't creating value to you does not mean that they are't creating value to someone else. In this case, people value reservations; its the same thing with concerts or sporting events with scalpers - the price does not reflect market value - that value is being allocated already to people who may n…

Scalpers do not create value. At a concert the value is being created by the performers, and it's not like scalpers create seats or make the show longer. They just shift value around to people with more money.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#23
post #17

Just wait someone realizes that it costs less for a driverless, electric car to sit in a traffic jam than a car park.

Then they can have a fleet of them which go into traffic at peak hours & allow people to bid to have them removed from traffic. ;)

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#24
post #16
post #8

I completely agree with this article, but wonder if it's inevitable for someone to jump in and try to make profit off of services for the public good if there are people out there willing to pay for it. For example, if we had sufficient parking in the city, these startups would never even cause a blip. Someone must have been driving around for half an hour looking for parking and then thought to themselves that, at t…

I think it's great that people want to solve problems, but this isn't actually solving the problem. It's shifting the problem from rich people to poor people. In contrast, there are plenty of startups that are actually making the parking problem better. City CarShare and ZipCar are reducing the number of cars in the city by having cars available on demand. GetAround and RelayRides are upping the number of drivers per…

Yeah. The real solution to parking in SF is to have fewer people driving, which would involve improving the public transit options.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#25

That's one reason I use unexploitable public goods, like public tranportion, and go to salad bars not trendy enough for some kid to want to scalp.

That in and of itself is a good reason for great public goods. They are, or should be, by definition 'unexploitable'.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it's not your parking spot, but public property.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. ;) EDIT: Probably down voted because of length, but I'm pointing out that this is an opinion lots of people have, and there's a reason it exists as a truism. If you pass a law against apps like this, how could you possibly enforce it? The seller's car is already in the spot, and police can't get a real time notification that he's using the app. By the time they realize what happened (if…

Hence why they go after the "racketeers" - the one facilitating it in an organized way.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#27
post #14
post #9

The reservation is obvious bullshit, but I just don't see a problem with selling your parking spot.

The problem is it's not your parking spot, but public property.

Right, and you're allowed to occupy it as long as you want. If your friend gives you $5 to let him take it over, I don't see a problem.

This could only be a problem if people start parking cars they would never use in the city, just to profit from these services.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#28
post #20
post #4

> Thankfully the city of San Francisco is fighting Sweetch and Monkey Parking with cease-and-desist orders. The city of San Francisco should be fighting Sweetch and Monkey Parking by cutting out the middleman and drastically raising their parking fees.

They're doing some of that. But there's a problem with that: plenty of people who live here can't afford a sudden major bump in living expenses. In the long term, correct pricing is part of the solution. But in the short term, it'd be unfortunate to solve the problem by screwing poorer people. And anyway, this could be a temporary spike in demand. Once places like ZipCar and Uber get ahold of self-driving cars, I exp…

You could do it in a revenue-neutral way by distributing the additional parking fees directly to poorer people. This could make allocation more efficient whilst redistributing money from richer drivers to poorer non-drivers, whilst being neutral for poorer drivers and richer non-drivers.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#29
post #7

God yes. The whole point of commerce is the creation and exchange of value. The great startups have been great because they create massive amounts of value in the world. Startups like this don't create value. They just shift the value around. In the case of these startups, they shift the value to rich people while pocketing the cash. They are essentially parasitic. Not only is that a dick move, it's dumb for a startu…

Just to be clear: I agree with your point on focusing on creating value. And after I read your comment, I agree that none of the startups in the articles are truly creating that much value.

However, is it that simple to qualify when you're creating value? If I had read the article before HN's comments, I'd have thought the startup is cool (admittedly trivial and silly, but we have a lot of those nowadays), rather than parasitic. I'd have thought it's just a clever hack in helping more efficient distribution - in the true spirit of capitalism. Yes, while it would shift the value to rich people, it also free up the rich people's time, so they (rich people) can create more value. Assuming that rich people is richer because society decides that their time is more valuable, they can create more value in the same amount of times of some other poorer people.

Of course, that might be not morally justifiable. But creating value and being morally correct is orthogonal.

I'm not living in SF the SV area, but I've a few friends there. Every time they talked to me about startup ideas, I've always felt off about those ideas. I kept telling myself that trivial value is still value, and potentially if it can help many people, the net gain would still be large. How do I know where to draw the line?

Edit: it seems like quite a few people have problem with my post, so let me rephrase the middle paragraph a bit:

Ignoring the mentioning of rich/ poor, parking spot is a commodity. And just like other commodity in life, everyone values it differently. What's wrong in letting people paying for what they think it's worth for? The rich will always have advantage in buying commodity, and that's a fundamental issue in our society, but that's an entirely separate problem to fix, and the solution isn't telling people to stop producing commodity, or distributing them. In this specific case of parking lot, it's bad either way because a private company is skimming profit from public space.

Re: Stop The JerkTech

#30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possession is 9/10 of the law. ;) EDIT: Probably down voted because of length, but I'm pointing out that this is an opinion lots of people have, and there's a reason it exists as a truism. If you pass a law against apps like this, how could you possibly enforce it? The seller's car is already in the spot, and police can't get a real time notification that he's using the app. By the time they realize what happened (if…

Hence why they go after the "racketeers" - the one facilitating it in an organized way.

And of course you can subpoena the racketeers, follow the money trail, and ticket both buyers and sellers. According to the city attorney, it's a $300 fine: http://www.sfcityattorney.org/index.aspx?page=599
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