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Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

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Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#71
post #38

So SoundCloud users had a good run, but now the popularity of the service reached critical mass and raised the ire of the labels so they're knuckling under like every other provider. SoundCloud (sensibly) doesn't want the burden of dealing with the massive copyright infringement by it's users and outsources the job to the owners of the tracks. Now I get that it sucks that you don't get explicit explanations of what i…

> If you actually give a shit, discover and promote new music from awesome bands that are not beholden to the labels. That's the only way to break the stranglehold.

This. If you get a promo from an artist, ask them, "Is this under copyright with a label? Sorry, in that case I can't play it."

Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#72
post #38

So SoundCloud users had a good run, but now the popularity of the service reached critical mass and raised the ire of the labels so they're knuckling under like every other provider. SoundCloud (sensibly) doesn't want the burden of dealing with the massive copyright infringement by it's users and outsources the job to the owners of the tracks. Now I get that it sucks that you don't get explicit explanations of what i…

> If you actually give a shit, discover and promote new music from awesome bands that are not beholden to the labels. That's the only way to break the stranglehold. This. If you get a promo from an artist, ask them, "Is this under copyright with a label? Sorry, in that case I can't play it."

Isn't that akin to not blogging about a great startup because you don't like their VC?

There are better ways to stick it to the man.

Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#73

Somewhat offtopic, but why is there an obsession with music discovery services? Soundcloud has its own niche in terms of sharing and usage, but other services like 8tracks and Slacker seem rather unnecessary. Is it that hard to discover new music on one's own?

> Is it that hard to discover new music on one's own?

Yes, it is.

Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#75

The part that really gets me is that Universal isn't even trying to help people "do the right thing". In the email from Greg Morris he states: "The problem I'm having is the ambiguity of the feedback. For example, on the first strike you just said "Universal Music" said I used one of their tunes. The set started with an Ellie Golding song which I thought was the problem. So I removed that and re-uploaded. It was then…

Oh boo hoo. He's promoting his own internet radio show, it's up to him to work out clearances. He asks what basis they have for doing it, like choice of law etc., well read the ToS, that's why it's there. 'Other people do it too!' is about the most juvenile argument there is, and the fact that they haven't experienced problems yet is neither here nor there. Maybe Universal hasn't got around to yanking stuff from them yet, maybe they have proper clearances or pay ASCAP feees, or maybe Universal/Soundcloud is enforcing their copyright arbitrarily...which they're perfectly entitled to do as a private entity. Equal treatment under law only applies to the government, unless you can show you're being discriminated against as a member of a protected class.

So his problem is he doesn't know which song(s) is/are infringing? Take your tracklisting and check it against discogs.com or some other music publishing database, and see which songs were published by Universal Music. Maybe 30 minutes of work for a 1 hour show, tops. The responsibility to check clearances does lie with the person who wants to use a copyrighted work.

Edit: I realize this is an unpopular view, but if you're downvoting I invite you to spell out what you think is wrong about it. Every magazine/website/course aimed at budding record producers/DJs/musicians provides coverage of copyright and licensing issues, to help their readership collect what is owed to them as much as to avoid infringement. There is no way you can be an aspiring or actual professional in the music industry for any significant length of time and not be aware of your basic obligations in this area.

Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#76

I have just had this very issue directly as an electronic music producer. Was flagged for my own original music NOT on a remix or anything that contained samples but an original jam I made with some classic Roland hardware; Roland SH-101, TR-909, and TR-606! Seems the algorithm they use to flag has many flaws and is automated with no one at the wheel to look at individual cases. Not sure where soundcloud is going wit…

That's a much more legit complaint than the one in the source article, and as an electronic musician myself I can see how that would happen. Sadly Mixcloud has problems of its own, eg this, which I posted here the other day: http://support.mixcloud.com/customer/portal/articles/1595564...

Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#77
post #29

Why have we, as a society, become OK with handing over policing power to corporations unrestrained by due process? For example, by using sites like Soundcloud. Is it the lack of civics education in high school?

> Why have we, as a society, become OK with handing over policing power to corporations unrestrained by due process? These companies do not care about due process, they care about the bottom line of making a dollar at the end of the day. Soundcloud determined it is much less expensive for them to go this route than be sued by Universal. Every company follows this practice as for they are serving their best interest.…

> Soundcloud determined it is much less expensive for them to go this route than be sued by Universal.

Which is sad, because Soundcloud would win in court, as they'd have no problem proving that the site doesn't exist primarily to help its users infringe copyrights owned by Universal.

Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#78
post #38

So SoundCloud users had a good run, but now the popularity of the service reached critical mass and raised the ire of the labels so they're knuckling under like every other provider. SoundCloud (sensibly) doesn't want the burden of dealing with the massive copyright infringement by it's users and outsources the job to the owners of the tracks. Now I get that it sucks that you don't get explicit explanations of what i…

> If you actually give a shit, discover and promote new music from awesome bands that are not beholden to the labels. That's the only way to break the stranglehold. This. If you get a promo from an artist, ask them, "Is this under copyright with a label? Sorry, in that case I can't play it."

Actually the correct response would be 'can you give me a release to play it.' Everything is under copyright with someone, refusing to deal with any labels whatsoever just means punishing any artist that dares enter into a publishing relationship with someone else.

Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#79

The part that really gets me is that Universal isn't even trying to help people "do the right thing". In the email from Greg Morris he states: "The problem I'm having is the ambiguity of the feedback. For example, on the first strike you just said "Universal Music" said I used one of their tunes. The set started with an Ellie Golding song which I thought was the problem. So I removed that and re-uploaded. It was then…

Oh boo hoo. He's promoting his own internet radio show, it's up to him to work out clearances. He asks what basis they have for doing it, like choice of law etc., well read the ToS, that's why it's there. 'Other people do it too!' is about the most juvenile argument there is, and the fact that they haven't experienced problems yet is neither here nor there. Maybe Universal hasn't got around to yanking stuff from them…

People might be downvoting this because of it's tone, but it's correct. If you're putting up radio shows, DJ sets or anything that uses other people's music you need to clear each track in it. Owning a piece of music doesn't entitle you to broadcast it, it merely entitles you to listen to it.

Re: Soundcloud Releases New App, Allows Universal to Flag Your Account

#80

I have just had this very issue directly as an electronic music producer. Was flagged for my own original music NOT on a remix or anything that contained samples but an original jam I made with some classic Roland hardware; Roland SH-101, TR-909, and TR-606! Seems the algorithm they use to flag has many flaws and is automated with no one at the wheel to look at individual cases. Not sure where soundcloud is going wit…

Same thing happened to us, but with a couple of official remixes released on a sub-label of universal. The issue is that the content gets removed before you're able to verify it's yours.

I feel like they would have avoided a lot of negativity if they gave users a time window to verify before removal.

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