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Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

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Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#31

Post by Amezarak »

hopeless wrote: post #15
spindritf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium Not even close. This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along. They don't trust their own citizens, not "corporations and other stewards of this medium." You're buying a flimsy excuse for cracking down on free speech. Their problem has never been th…

I could easily see the EU strengthening our data protection laws in the next few years to take us in this direction. In light of the NSA scandals there's probably a strong justification for this… except that the UK is a bigger danger to privacy and it operates within the EU.

Nearly every EU country is documented to have similar programs, not just the UK. Some are even much more aggressive about industrial espionage - for example, France. When European politicians make noise about using European-based services, it isn't so they can be sure your privacy is protected, it's so EU-based organizations can access those servers without having to negotiate with the NSA. As a side benefit, they can claim it's good for the local economy.

The NSA revelations are just a pretext. Every European country knew exactly what was going on; they were complicit in it and they had varying levels of sharing agreements with the NSA.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#32

Post by vdaniuk »

jqm wrote: post #29
spindritf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium Not even close. This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along. They don't trust their own citizens, not "corporations and other stewards of this medium." You're buying a flimsy excuse for cracking down on free speech. Their problem has never been th…

Both mistrust of foreign companies and desire to suppress dissent could be reasons this law is being enacted. It doesn't have to be one or the other. And, there could even be a third element. Economic protectionism and "keep the money here". Or even a forth element. The lawmakers cousin owns a data center in Moscow:)

"Keep the money here"? That's for filthy peasants, noblemen of Russian bureaucracy hold their savings overseas.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#33

Post by insuffi »

vdaniuk wrote: post #30
insuffi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly not that Putin needs to suppress dissent from his own people. It's a very small minority in Russia that would like Putin removed. Now, if we're talking about the west investing x billion in "democratic institutions"(Ukraine, anyone?), it makes some sense for Russia to isolate itself. Obviously, it's easy to paint Russia as evil, but the cold war is over, buddy.

That's hilarious. People in Russia support Putin exactly because there are virtually no free mass media. This is one of the latest steps to block access to all media channels that may oppose Russian cleptocratic government.

Heh, Right. Is there free mass media anywhere else? Are you aware that any journalist who spoke out against the Iraq war never had a career again? Free mass media is a political talking point, not a real thing.

Would you prefer Yeltsin? Putin is what Russia needs.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#35

Post by bitL »

spindritf wrote: post #13
cyphunk wrote: post #3

It sounds evil but balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium. The NSA/GCHQ scandal only pushed it a little further. We all know that any great medium starts out as a bastion of understanding, sharing and common good until a bunch of trolls show up to ruin it all (ahem, reddit, ycombinator, digg, etc). Until that moment we enjoy all the…

balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium Not even close. This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along. They don't trust their own citizens, not "corporations and other stewards of this medium." You're buying a flimsy excuse for cracking down on free speech. Their problem has never been th…

Russia is obviously preparing for a war. They are trying to build and control their own services for everything (finance, e-commerce, even CPU manufacturing etc.) so that the country doesn't collapse once it is cut off from the West, the weakness China doesn't have. It sucks for all the people that want to enjoy freedom there.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#37

Post by rayiner »

cyphunk wrote: post #3

It sounds evil but balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium. The NSA/GCHQ scandal only pushed it a little further. We all know that any great medium starts out as a bastion of understanding, sharing and common good until a bunch of trolls show up to ruin it all (ahem, reddit, ycombinator, digg, etc). Until that moment we enjoy all the…

> So I think it's natural that people recede slightly from the idea a globalised common communal identity created by the Internet and look toward their national structures to protect them.

Communal identities are built along lines manned by people with guns. All that's happening now is that the internet has become an important resource, and countries are seeking to control it, like they do with any strategic resource.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#38

Post by bad_user »

spindritf wrote: post #13
cyphunk wrote: post #3

It sounds evil but balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium. The NSA/GCHQ scandal only pushed it a little further. We all know that any great medium starts out as a bastion of understanding, sharing and common good until a bunch of trolls show up to ruin it all (ahem, reddit, ycombinator, digg, etc). Until that moment we enjoy all the…

balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium Not even close. This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along. They don't trust their own citizens, not "corporations and other stewards of this medium." You're buying a flimsy excuse for cracking down on free speech. Their problem has never been th…

> This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along.

No government can act without the acceptance of a majority of the citizens. China's firewall can only exist because the Chinese people are accepting it in the name of protecting children or other such bullshit - brits should watch out, as their personal liberties have been eroded in the name of safety for too long. And if you live in the US, I suppose you're familiar with the Patriot Act ;-)

No, governments don't do this unless a majority approves - that they approve for the wrong reasons, that's another story entirely. But as I kept saying ever since Snowden's leaks happened - the US government fucked things up, they won't even admit to how badly they fucked up and this will have deep repercussions internationally regarding the future of the Internet. A lot of international (mostly US) companies will get hurt by this, because (1) they didn't have a saying in the matter, yet the public views them as being guilty nonetheless and (2) because of balkanization.

And the US can't point fingers and say "look who's talking", as that won't achieve anything. Say that to the Russian public who approves this. The US, as the stewart of the Internet, should have been careful to not fuck things up so badly in the first place. And after Snowden's leaks I would have liked to see some apologies, some heads falling - but ALAS, no, nothing of the sort - only a direct confirmation that they don't care about the rights of foreign individuals and as a non-US citizen, how do you think that makes me feel?

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#39

Post by bedane »

huhtenberg wrote: post #2

It's a post-Snowden world, so I can't say I'm surprised nor that I think it's ridiculous. I also strongly suspect that EU will follow the suit shortly.

No, because the EU states with decision-making power are USA vassals since 1945
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