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Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

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Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#31

Post by khuey »

ryanSrich wrote: post #12

It's very interesting to read that most companies change salaries based on location. I'd like to hear from someone in a senior level position explain the reasoning behind that. I think that it would make the most sense to pay someone what they are worth, regardless of location. As a remote worker who moves quite a bit I'd be constantly having to renegotiate my salary.

There's no "what they are worth" without a market, and the location is an inherent part of the market because most companies don't do remote work.

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#32

Post by ploureiro »

ryanSrich wrote: post #21
zaroth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dollars simply aren't worth the same in San Fran as they are in Kansas City. Your pay is actually not "going down" in an economic sense. Taxes are part of it. If overall state taxes (property, local, state, sales, and other fees) is 25% of your gross in CA, and 15% of your gross in MO, companies can reasonably expect to pay less in MO for the same work. Another way to think about it, what percentile does your pay fal…

But you're still emphasizing a personal decision that I choose to make. Don't worry about what I do outside of work or where I live. Worry about the quality of the work I produce for you and then pay me for it. I completely agree with you in regards to a dollar being very different in SF as compared to KC, but that should have no relevance to how much I get paid. > Your pay is actually not "going down" Yes my pay act…

Check your bank account in the end of the month. It's going up!

Don't forget that if you earn less money in the same country then you'll pay proportionally less taxes. Made up numbers: CA = 120k gross -> 80k after tax. Another state: 100k gross ->70k after tax; Difference in cost of living: 10k). Now you are breaking even. Of course, totally made up numbers.

And as an extra, for every extra dollar you have in a cheaper state, you can do more with it than in CA.

Sure, I would love to make the same kind of money in the cheapest corner in the world but companies aren't there to make us rich; they are there to have a business! If you want to try to convince company to pay for what you produce instead of paying a fair salary, try contracting instead (and be good at selling yourself)

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#33

Post by nicholas73 »

WalterSear wrote: post #8
joncp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think they should be?

IMHO, those figures are ~~20% under market. Maybe it's a really good place to work.

From the table a junior engineer is 92k from 60k base + 22k SF locality + 10k cash over stock option. Is 92k that bad for junior?

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#34

Post by crdb »

We pay the same (and offer a Singapore visa if they change their mind). The method is pretty simple: we pay X amount of money and get Y (or more) amount of code "value" back, and try and keep Y/X relatively stable.

Works out well for those living in cheaper cities, but it does suck a bit if you're in a high tax country/state, since Singapore's tax rate is in the single digit percent.

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#35

Post by crdb »

nilkn wrote: post #9
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredibly transparent about their low-ball salaries.

The salaries are low for San Francisco but high for most of the country. The people working remotely are getting a great deal, provided they're using the opportunity to live cheaply. The people working locally in SF not so much.

Maybe the lesson there is not to hire in SF, if you can make a global (or even national) workforce work.

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#36

Post by dnt404-1 »

michaelt wrote: post #28
programminggeek wrote: post #18

I think there is something sort of foolish about the fact that across the board employees are basically not allowed to mention real numbers regarding how much they make or even things like the industry average pay. Read these threads and you almost never hear anyone mention real numbers because they are terrified of either being fired or having their peers realize what a good/bad deal they've made. Yet, in a lot of p…

Companies probably don't want people to know what other people make because it gives the individual leverage to negotiate. We as developers are terrible at negotiating and don't want to admit it. If you're a developer who is good at negotiating, it's a whole lot easier to negotiate a $20,000 raise for yourself than to negotiate the same raise for everyone on the same pay grade. If I make the company $200,000 that fun…

totally true that negotiating for oneself is very easy than the rest of the team. back when i was working (before taking studies), it was easy to get my pay raised, however later as i became team leader, and when i tried to raise the pay for all of my team and that never really went through.

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#37

Post by nomadpdx »

crdb wrote: post #34

We pay the same (and offer a Singapore visa if they change their mind). The method is pretty simple: we pay X amount of money and get Y (or more) amount of code "value" back, and try and keep Y/X relatively stable. Works out well for those living in cheaper cities, but it does suck a bit if you're in a high tax country/state, since Singapore's tax rate is in the single digit percent.

This is exactly the comment I was looking for. So many folks on here that are resistant to the idea of paying everyone equally for the amount of value they bring to the team.

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#38

Post by doug11235 »

ploureiro wrote: post #32
ryanSrich wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're still emphasizing a personal decision that I choose to make. Don't worry about what I do outside of work or where I live. Worry about the quality of the work I produce for you and then pay me for it. I completely agree with you in regards to a dollar being very different in SF as compared to KC, but that should have no relevance to how much I get paid. > Your pay is actually not "going down" Yes my pay act…

Check your bank account in the end of the month. It's going up! Don't forget that if you earn less money in the same country then you'll pay proportionally less taxes. Made up numbers: CA = 120k gross -> 80k after tax. Another state: 100k gross ->70k after tax; Difference in cost of living: 10k). Now you are breaking even. Of course, totally made up numbers. And as an extra, for every extra dollar you have in a cheap…

But here are a couple of things to consider.

1. If I make more than approx $106k a year, I cap out on paying FICA. 2. As far as I know, everything I buy at places like Amazon costs the same regardless of where I live (with in the US). 3. Many financial incentives are provided as a percentage instead of a raw dollar amount e.g. 401k's are usually matched by percentage, raises are often a percentage increase.

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#39

Post by WalterSear »

nicholas73 wrote: post #33
WalterSear wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, those figures are ~~20% under market. Maybe it's a really good place to work.

From the table a junior engineer is 92k from 60k base + 22k SF locality + 10k cash over stock option. Is 92k that bad for junior?

Maybe not that specific position, but the salary list at the end looked very roughly 20% low to what I am used to seeing on Angel list etc, etc., even giving the lack of locality pay.

Re: Ask HN: Local vs. remote salary gap

#40

Post by WalterSear »

nilkn wrote: post #9
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredibly transparent about their low-ball salaries.

The salaries are low for San Francisco but high for most of the country. The people working remotely are getting a great deal, provided they're using the opportunity to live cheaply. The people working locally in SF not so much.

They are low, even figuring in the locality pay.
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