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From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

nytimes.com

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Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#21

Post by [deleted] »

programmer_dude wrote: post #13
someperson wrote: post #9

What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…

Can you provide some sources which demonstrate the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft?

[deleted]

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#22

Post by someperson »

ganwar wrote: post #17
someperson wrote: post #9

What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…

It is un-verifiable. Back your statements with facts or reports which mention as such. Dont go loose in the la la land.

This video is a good source: http://www.space.com/23199-indias-first-mars-mission-prepare...

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#23

Post by someperson »

programmer_dude wrote: post #13
someperson wrote: post #9

What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…

Can you provide some sources which demonstrate the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft?

I can't provide evidence of lack of heat and chemical based sterilization treatment post assembly of spacecraft but see my updated post for sources on lack of clean room procedures DURING assembly - particularly the video at http://www.space.com/23199-indias-first-mars-mission-prepare... which shows assembly conditions very clearly

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#24

Post by swatkat »

albeva wrote: post #10

I think the real reason in difference in costs is that in India salaries are much lower and profits expected by 3rd party providers are much smaller. So building and engineering is way cheaper. How about quality?

We had an interesting discussion on this topic a while ago, which might interest you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7558728

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#25

Post by smoyer »

I'd like to know the hardware cost and number of man-hours put into each mission. Labor is a large part of a creating and operating a spacecraft, so comparing man-hours eliminates the differences you might find due to the expected rate of the engineers in each country.

I should also note that when I say "hardware cost", I'm also including a break-down for each sub-contractor (and sub-sub, sub-sub-sub, etc) since you can't really say you bought a large component from one vendor so that's the hardware cost of that component. This criteria makes it pretty hard to every know the actual hardware cost versus engineering/manufacturing hours.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#26

Post by eCubeH »

capex wrote: post #7
xmonkee wrote: post #4

The article mentions "jugaad" as the Indian way of doing things inexpensively. It roughly means a "hack", and it really is very fundamental to the Indian engineering brain. I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. I think all engineering teams should have at least one jugaadu person on it.

From what I know, jugaad's meaning crosses the boundaries of ethics freely. In the business community, unethical practices also get the same title. I am not a native Hindi speaker, so would be good if someone can elaborate.

Q&D

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#27

Post by wreckimnaked »

icebraining wrote: post #5
xmonkee wrote: post #4

The article mentions "jugaad" as the Indian way of doing things inexpensively. It roughly means a "hack", and it really is very fundamental to the Indian engineering brain. I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. I think all engineering teams should have at least one jugaadu person on it.

I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. Yeap: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desenrascanço I'd say it's both a source of national pride and shame for us, in the sense that we can find ingenious solutions, but often those are only required because we didn't do it right in the first place.

In Brazil it's called "gambiarra", and the same mixed pride/shame feelings also apply.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#28

Post by wil421 »

xmonkee wrote: post #4

The article mentions "jugaad" as the Indian way of doing things inexpensively. It roughly means a "hack", and it really is very fundamental to the Indian engineering brain. I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. I think all engineering teams should have at least one jugaadu person on it.

We have a saying called "Jerry rigged" in the South that we use. I think it is very similar to jugaad and can be thought of has using what you have available to hack something into a working state again (or something new made from different parts).

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#29

Post by [deleted] »

someperson wrote: post #22
ganwar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is un-verifiable. Back your statements with facts or reports which mention as such. Dont go loose in the la la land.

This video is a good source: http://www.space.com/23199-indias-first-mars-mission-prepare...

[deleted]

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#30

Post by quarterwave »

In his autobiography 'Wings of Fire', A.P.J.Abdul Kalam, himself an ISRO rocket scientist & program director who later became a highly popular President of India (he draws crowds to this day, several years after office), quotes Gen. Patton: "A good plan violently executed right now is far better than a perfect plan executed next week." That could well summarize the ISRO style.

Kalam also highlights the leadership-by-open-discussion style of Vikram Sarabhai and Satish Dhawan who successively headed ISRO in its formative years. If that sounds commonplace, bear in mind this was in a civilian government organization of the 1960's. People like Sarabhai (a Cambridge Tripos and inheritor of a family business empire) and Dhawan (a double PhD in math and aerospace from Caltech) could have played the part and been overbearing - but they deliberately chose to build a "startup culture" where people were encouraged to speak up.

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