Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 116 posts

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#11

Post by Fuxy »

eklavya wrote: post #6
icebraining wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. Yeap: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desenrascanço I'd say it's both a source of national pride and shame for us, in the sense that we can find ingenious solutions, but often those are only required because we didn't do it right in the first place.

More often than not it's "couldn't due to resource constraints".

That's mostly why I kind of feel like I want to wait and see if the spacecraft actually manages to do what it's designed to.

If you have to send multiple 70+ million dollar missions because the hacks keep failing the cost benefit is not all that good compare to the more expensive 300 million dollar mission.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#12

Post by chdir »

xmonkee wrote: post #4

The article mentions "jugaad" as the Indian way of doing things inexpensively. It roughly means a "hack", and it really is very fundamental to the Indian engineering brain. I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. I think all engineering teams should have at least one jugaadu person on it.

The book "fortune at the bottom of the pyramid"[1] has several interesting case studies on building businesses on budget for the needy. Some of them like "Jaipur foot"[2], "Aaravind Eye Care"[3] are excellent examples of how "jugaad" works in India. It doesn't have to be a kluge as someone stated below. Ofcourse the word is liberally used to indicate ways to circumvent the "official" or "ethical" way. So, it depends on the case at hand ! If used in a positive way, "hacker" is a good english substitute for it.

I think "jugaad" gets ingrained naturally when you are on a budget and don't have access to all the cool tools but have a desire to build something.

[1] : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fortune_at_the_Bottom_of_th...

[2] : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaipur_leg

[3] : http://www.npr.org/2011/11/29/142526263/india-eye-care-cente...

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#13

Post by programmer_dude »

someperson wrote: post #9

What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…

Can you provide some sources which demonstrate the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft?

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#14

Post by anilgulecha »

capex wrote: post #7
xmonkee wrote: post #4

The article mentions "jugaad" as the Indian way of doing things inexpensively. It roughly means a "hack", and it really is very fundamental to the Indian engineering brain. I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. I think all engineering teams should have at least one jugaadu person on it.

From what I know, jugaad's meaning crosses the boundaries of ethics freely. In the business community, unethical practices also get the same title. I am not a native Hindi speaker, so would be good if someone can elaborate.

This is correct. The 'unethical' connotations bears a close resemblance to the same in the word 'hacker'. So it makes for an apt synonym.

(Another person in this thread ties it more closely to 'kludge' -- this would be correct too. More correct would be innovative or tricky kludge.)

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#15

Post by DominikR »

albeva wrote: post #10

I think the real reason in difference in costs is that in India salaries are much lower and profits expected by 3rd party providers are much smaller. So building and engineering is way cheaper. How about quality?

Money alone wont get you far in this area. It's talented engineers and the right strategy that is important.

Otherwise you couldn't explain why the Soviets/Russians had such a remarkably reliable space program, even though they always had less resources than the US.

From what I understand, NASA tends to overload projects with thousands of requirements and features, which introduce additional points of failure, whereas the Russians focus more on the basics.

It seems like the Indians will also use the same strategy, and focus on the basics and reuse what they already have, which makes sense, considering their limited resources.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#16

Post by ganwar »

albeva wrote: post #10

I think the real reason in difference in costs is that in India salaries are much lower and profits expected by 3rd party providers are much smaller. So building and engineering is way cheaper. How about quality?

Indian space program is one of the most reliable (less number of accidents) space programs in the world.

Just yesterday Indian successfully launched PSLV to put 5 foreign satellites in orbit. It's 26th consecutive successful flight.

It is the most reliable and cost effective rocket in the world right now.

Salaries do play a part in bringing the cost down but that is not the only reason. ISRO functions like a very agile organisation with small teams focusing on specific targets with autonomy. Also, a lot of cost is saved in the testing phase as well.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#17

Post by ganwar »

someperson wrote: post #9

What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…

It is un-verifiable. Back your statements with facts or reports which mention as such.

Dont go loose in the la la land.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#18

Post by chdir »

someperson wrote: post #9

What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…

Didn't downvote, but disagree with your assumption about 'lack of sterilization'. The official word from ISRO is that they comply with 'planetary protection' requirements.

"ISRO said the spacecraft was built according to the planetary protection implementation requirements specified for ‘orbiter’ category of missions."

SOURCE : http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/mom...

Some articles speculate about the rigorousness but can't confirm. Implying it doesn't exceed them doesn't equate to skipping the sterilization. Besides, it's carrying satellites from developed countries (France, Germany, Canada & Singapore), which I doubt would be complicit in creating an international controversy.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#19

Post by icebraining »

eklavya wrote: post #6
icebraining wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. Yeap: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/desenrascanço I'd say it's both a source of national pride and shame for us, in the sense that we can find ingenious solutions, but often those are only required because we didn't do it right in the first place.

More often than not it's "couldn't due to resource constraints".

I'm talking about the Portuguese term, not the Hindi.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#20

Post by userbinator »

xmonkee wrote: post #4

The article mentions "jugaad" as the Indian way of doing things inexpensively. It roughly means a "hack", and it really is very fundamental to the Indian engineering brain. I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. I think all engineering teams should have at least one jugaadu person on it.

A similar Chinese term might be "shanzhai": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanzhai
Post reply on HN