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How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

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Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#11
post #7
post #3

The Northwest suburbs (Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont) got quite screwed over in this deal - we approved and paid into the 0.4% sales tax in 2004, but ended up with only years of disruptive highway construction leading to a privatized tollway and fake Bus Rapid Transit. We didn't even get real BRT as the buses run in the private toll lanes rather than their own grade and the buses board and debo…

36 is starting to show a lot of progress for the dedicated bus lanes and the train tracks which will eventually go to Longmont. It was always the plan that the south and airport would go first. The north is scheduled to be done in 2017 I believe.

36 isn't showing any progress for train tracks - they're not building any!

There's going to be light rail to South Westminster (South of 72nd), but the train tracks to Longmont are only being "researched," aren't part of this phase of construction, and are one of the reasons RTD are trying to pass an additional 0.4% sales tax.

The original concept was that the Northwest Rail project would proceed along with the other rail projects - to the point that housing developments like Steel Yards were built next to Boulder Junction in anticipation of the "coming train station." The original project plan involved running RTD and BNSF freight trains on the same shared, standard-width, diesel-powered rail line, not unlike Caltrain in the Bay. You can see that map here: http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/media/uploads/nw/2009-0715_NWR_... (stations in Red were purportedly "funded" by the 2004 tax).

That plan was scrapped for a variety of reasons: RTD couldn't come to an agreement with BNSF, they would have had to use eminent domain and pay a lot to build a rail yard, and they straight up mismanaged and ran out of money.

The new plan is that there's no plan: RTD are conducting a "Northwest Area Mobility Study" and even if an additional tax were to pass, it's unlikely we'd see a working rail line until the mid-2020s at the earliest: http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/nw_1

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#12
Awesome. I went to college in Denver back when the first light rail initiative tanked, and it was a nightmare to get around the city without a car. I've been back a few times since, and the transformation has been remarkable: almost everywhere I went back then is accessible by train now.

Now, if only San Francisco could follow suit and invest in greater transit -- instead of trying to increase the density of already-dense neighborhoods -- we might have a prayer of battling housing costs here. Housing density automatically happens when people can get from cheaper places to more expensive places quickly and reliably.

(Or maybe people will just leave the ridiculous bubble of the bay area, and go to places like Denver instead. Even better.)

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#13
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

36 is starting to show a lot of progress for the dedicated bus lanes and the train tracks which will eventually go to Longmont. It was always the plan that the south and airport would go first. The north is scheduled to be done in 2017 I believe.

36 isn't showing any progress for train tracks - they're not building any! There's going to be light rail to South Westminster (South of 72nd), but the train tracks to Longmont are only being "researched," aren't part of this phase of construction, and are one of the reasons RTD are trying to pass an additional 0.4% sales tax. The original concept was that the Northwest Rail project would proceed along with the other…

You definitely seem to know more about it than me, but I question your assertion that there hasn't been any rail construction north of 72nd. Some of the construction, such as raising the bridge at 128, seems strange if the construction is only for buses.

I am somewhat glad that the diesel-powered rail didn't work out. I would much rather have some type of electric-powered rail. But any rail line is better than none.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#14
Will metro residents give up their cars?

I wonder if the rise of Uber will affect this.

When I lived in Seattle, I noticed that a lot of people didn't commute to work via car but had one anyway, usually for one or two trips per week. Public transportation (buses and later light rail) were pretty good from about 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. or so during weekdays but were horrible the rest of the time. Bikes could be used intermittently.

Uber does an amazing job of filling in the gap. Last time I visited Seattle, I was struck by how some of my friends had given up cars, despite rising incomes, largely due to Uber. Uber may play a key role in getting rid of a lot of cars that are only marginally utilized, since it appears far more reliable and friendly than taxis—virtually all Seattlites who have to use Seattle taxis hate them. This has environmental and other implications.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#15

Salt Lake City (also "in the West") already has ~45 miles of light rail track [1], 88 miles of commuter rail track [2], ~3 streetcar track miles [3], and 69 transit stations. It was named as one of the top transit systems in north america for 2014 [4]. This was approved in 2008 by voters in Salt Lake County [5]. Already under works are plans to expand the commuter rail beyond Ogden to Provo (from 88 to 135 miles) and…

To me, SLC is the ultimate counterpoint to the whole "Republicans are destroying transit!!" hysteria. SLC's core is definitely left-leaning, but just a few miles outside the city center it is pure Republican territory. And despite the heavily skewed demographics, they are voting in massive numbers to extend rail transit to their cities. It is quite amazing what will happen to voting trends on transit investment when you consistently demonstrate fiscal responsibility, fast construction, and high ridership.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#16

Salt Lake City (also "in the West") already has ~45 miles of light rail track [1], 88 miles of commuter rail track [2], ~3 streetcar track miles [3], and 69 transit stations. It was named as one of the top transit systems in north america for 2014 [4]. This was approved in 2008 by voters in Salt Lake County [5]. Already under works are plans to expand the commuter rail beyond Ogden to Provo (from 88 to 135 miles) and…

Sorry,

But Denver is Way more progressive and open than Salt Lake. So in general it rocks! And we can buy beer at sundays ;)

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#17

Salt Lake City (also "in the West") already has ~45 miles of light rail track [1], 88 miles of commuter rail track [2], ~3 streetcar track miles [3], and 69 transit stations. It was named as one of the top transit systems in north america for 2014 [4]. This was approved in 2008 by voters in Salt Lake County [5]. Already under works are plans to expand the commuter rail beyond Ogden to Provo (from 88 to 135 miles) and…

To me, SLC is the ultimate counterpoint to the whole "Republicans are destroying transit!!" hysteria. SLC's core is definitely left-leaning, but just a few miles outside the city center it is pure Republican territory. And despite the heavily skewed demographics, they are voting in massive numbers to extend rail transit to their cities. It is quite amazing what will happen to voting trends on transit investment when…

SLC light rail is significantly cheaper than RTD. The furthest zones in Denver are $10 round trip. When I was in SLC it was $2.50 round trip for anywhere on the entire line (I'm sure it's more by now).

Personally I believe that public transportation pricing should be based on an algorithm to maximize ridership rather than on being self-sustaining. Since the point of public transit is to reduce traffic, people that prefer to drive should be subsidizing public transit through registration and gas taxes.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#18

Salt Lake City (also "in the West") already has ~45 miles of light rail track [1], 88 miles of commuter rail track [2], ~3 streetcar track miles [3], and 69 transit stations. It was named as one of the top transit systems in north america for 2014 [4]. This was approved in 2008 by voters in Salt Lake County [5]. Already under works are plans to expand the commuter rail beyond Ogden to Provo (from 88 to 135 miles) and…

Sorry, But Denver is Way more progressive and open than Salt Lake. So in general it rocks! And we can buy beer at sundays ;)

And since January, we can buy other fun things too!

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#19
post #3

The Northwest suburbs (Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont) got quite screwed over in this deal - we approved and paid into the 0.4% sales tax in 2004, but ended up with only years of disruptive highway construction leading to a privatized tollway and fake Bus Rapid Transit. We didn't even get real BRT as the buses run in the private toll lanes rather than their own grade and the buses board and debo…

The Northwest line is already under construction to Arvada, correct? I believe they are working westward right now.

As for the line up to Boulder, blame the expense of building a completely separate right-of-way along the BNSF Brush Subdivision, a very busy funnel for coal trains :-/

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#20
post #3

The Northwest suburbs (Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont) got quite screwed over in this deal - we approved and paid into the 0.4% sales tax in 2004, but ended up with only years of disruptive highway construction leading to a privatized tollway and fake Bus Rapid Transit. We didn't even get real BRT as the buses run in the private toll lanes rather than their own grade and the buses board and debo…

> The Northwest suburbs (Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont) got quite screwed over in this deal

No kidding. Last I heard the proposed Light Rail extension might not even make it to Boulder. Longmont and Lafayette are most likely screwed. Personally I'd like to see a justification for how the rail west to Golden (which stops short no less) got priority over the airport or Boulder.

> The Denver area really does have good mass transit, though

Agreed. As far as American mass transit systems go RTD is pretty good. At least it's an integrated system unlike the mess in the SF Bay area.

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